The Kokopelli Golf Stance

7333 yds, Par 72, Slope 130, by Bill Bell (Bio)

They say: Papago Golf Course, owned by the City of Phoenix, AZ, was long considered the finest public golf course in the state. It was designed by well known and esteemed golf course architect William Francis (Billy) Bell, who learned his craft from his father, William Park Bell. They collaborated on many highly rated California courses. Perhaps best known among the nearly one hundred courses to Billy's credit is Torrey Pines in San Diego. He also designed Tucson Country Club and Wickenburg Country Club.

Papago Golf Course opened in 1963 and quickly became popular with Phoenix area residents. It hosted the US Amateur Public Links Championship in 1971, and also has been home to Phoenix Open Qualifying. In 1977 Jack Snyder, Phoenix resident and golf course architect, provided some modest redesign to Papago Golf Course. In its prime, the course hosted more than 100,000 rounds annually. But the years and the traffic had taken a toll on the course and Phoenix city and parks officials decided action should be taken.

Previous Visit & Review

Been trying to get to Papago since it re-opened . . . don't know what the deal is yet . . . outsourced the management from the city to some private group, trying to make it not just a muni, but something more . . . too bad - maybe - for all the muni-duffers in PHX . . . they lose the jewel of the crown, and the heinously overbuilt golf destination PHX gets another also-ran . . .I mean, it's good, but no way is it the best in the valley, but it does have a higher price now, which must count for something with Scottsdalers.

But I walked up as a single without a reservation (on the day of the Cards Playoff Game with Atlanta), and teed off by 11:05 . . . they put me with a 3some, Sean, Paul, & Lars . . . I told 'em I felt like Ringo . . . 8^D . . . They wanted to play the tips, despite the cautions of the Starter, so who was I to object? I don't have any business back there, but they dang sure didn't, but I figgered it would be a 5 hour round anyway you sliced it, so whattheheck.

The most obvious effect of the makeover is that they've cleared out a lot of the underbrush . . . something I sorta would rather they hadn't, but they did, so there's a sorta St Andrews feel to the first tee, if you see what I mean . . . Where're we goin'? . . . but I hammered a nice tight draw down the middle of the fairway. Lars was just off the fairway, Paul was short, and Sean had flared way out in the desert -- this was typical of our day, and resulted in some real slow play, at times. . . I hoped it wouldn't matter to me, so I could just enjoy getting out to play after a whole month of not . . .I expected to be rusty, especially in the short game, so expectations were very moderate. My second shot 3wood was off a downhill lie (possibly not a wise choice) and I hit a low hook into the rough on the left, 145 away. My 7iron to the uphill green was a little fat, but wound up on the front fringe of the green. A 7iron chip to 4 ft, then a steady little kneeknocker and I had a par to start off. I don't think that water would come into play normally, but psychologically, for slicers, who knows . . .

The par 4 #2 has a real ball magnet inside the dogleg, there . . .you just want to hit straight down the front leg which'd leave a short wedge to the green, but Lars & I both pulled our shots into the ravine there . . . we found 'em tho' and wedged up by the green. I bladed my chip into the fringe behind the back pin, but I turned around and putted that into the cup to save my par. Lars saved his too.

"These greens are good, aren't they" I asked him. . . "Well, they seem hard," he said, "there's not a mark on 'em". "Yeh, they're hard as a pool table, but just as smooth" . . . 8^D. . .
This is the first time I've used my new camera, and I haven't gotten the routine down, especially walking and carrying a drink, too . . . an awful lot to manage, and play golf, too. So I forgot to get a shot of the 2nd green till I got to the 3rd tee . . . we were so slow as a group I didn't want to go back. THis picture does inadvertantly show the condition of the course . . . which is pretty good where it matters and a little patch on the edges. You can also see how the very large greens look flattish, unless you get some perspective on them. . . there's some very large mounding involved, but the slopes are so broad that they're subtle.


Well, freaked by the hook into the woods on #2, I just made sure I hit my tee shot on the par 4 # 3, #1 handicap hole straight -- and it was, straight and straight up . . . 8^D . . . Lars'd fixed his snap hook too, right out into the trash on the right . . .I was comforted to see that they had still left some herbiage over there . . . very thick . . . 8^D . . . Paul was short again and Sean had lashed another Othello ball down the right side, still in play. {Othello Ball - one hit Well, but not Wisely}

Mindful that lately, my use of the 3wood has not been, er, useful, I tried to slowdown my swing and just not make the situation (short drive on a very long par 4) any worse, which, in my case, usually means that I guide my shot into a low sweeping hook, which is indeed what I did. Sort of Othello-ish in its own right, if you see what I mean . . . I wound up left of the bunker on the left, short-sided on the green, so that I would have to lob the ball over the bunker, onto a down slope -- the ball was a moral cert to run 30 ft past the pin, so I cleverly chunked it into the trap, so that I could hit a sand shot 8 ft past the pin and make that, instead of 3 putting from 30 ft . . . 8^D . . .

If you don't understand that strategy, I congratulate you on being a better golf than am I, in execution, anyway.
#4 is the first of the 4 very long par 3s at Papago . . . I don't think -- unless you were an obsessive/compulsive blogger you'd take pictures of them then blather on-and-on about them, but then here I am, and there you are, if you see what I mean . . .

I hit a kinda choke-down 5 wood with the tiniest hint possible of a draw on it onto the front of the green . . . from 233 I couldn't have been happier.

Putting-wise, with 2 putts in 3 holes so far, I was feeling kinda frisky, yet with the sober awareness that I had no right to putt that well, based on recent history, much less the fact that I ought to have been rusty from my lay-off . . . I was over 30 ft away, I reckon without pacing it off, and that is a really steep green that looked lightning-fast (as did they all, without actually being quite-so-fast), but putting uphill (that IS my ball there) I still wound up 3 ft past the hole, after over-reading the break.

That was a very nervous putt back down that hill, but I easily holed it . . . I may have started strutting, then . . . even juggling my drink and camera . . . I was one over after 4, with 4 putts.

So Now: I didn't want to "guide" my tee-shots anymore, just let loose, but let the club do the work, etc, etc, etc. Long-story-short, I fanned this one on #5 out off the grass on the right. I discovered that their grooming of the brush areas was complete, but not thorough . . . my ball lay between a stalk and a thick, exposed root of some plant that had been taken out . . . I was facing an elevated green surrounded by bunkers 200+ yds away, anyway, so I just took a 5iron and hacked at it -- cleared that root thingy out of the way for them -- and my ball wound up 10 yds short of the green. I didn't have to lob it over the bunker, I could've played left of the bunker and relied on my putting to make a longer putt, but instead I bladed my lob attempt over the green and took 3 shots to get down from there.

I'm a big fan of playing "correctly" even if I'm not getting the right results, so I didn't guide my tee-shot again, and blocked it right into those trees on the right, but by the time it came off the mounds in those trees, my ball was practically on the fairway again. I'd gotten my full distance out of it, despite the directional aberration, so I only had 195 left to the pin, from the top of the crest in that hole, downhill to the elevated green protected as all the greens here seem to be with twin bunkers guarding the front.

I like how the fairway ripples like waves leading up to the green, but it doesn't really enter into play unless you're scuttling the ball . . .

I planned and executed a perfect half-7wood . . . unfortunately, this was the 7wood of my career: it flew impossibly high in the air (I don't know why), with the wind, straight at the pin, bounced high once off the back half of the green and rolled off the back. My blind pitch back up the 12 ft slope to the green came up short, leaving me a very long 2 putt for bogey. One of those holes I simultaneously feel good and bad about.

The great comfort of playing 7300 yds, is that any concern about hitting a ball thru a dog leg pretty much goes away. Without such doubt, I finally got back into the mode of just hitting the ball into the fairway.

I aimed at the inside corner and blocked the ball at that trap on the right side . . . I grumbled until I saw that I'd come up short of that bunker, which was just fine.

Even better, against the wind, I was able to hit my magic 7wood, full, for the approach. I was justifiably confident, despite the everpresent bunkers guarding the green -- you know, after awhile, that becomes kinda boring -- that doesn't reduce the challenge, but optically & psychically, it devalues the golf shot value -- but these are some of the snuggest and deepest greenside bunkers on the course. I craftily came up short-and-handy of the green for an easy up-and-down par.

We had fallen way behind the pace, now. . . the group in front of us was no longer in sight. They have a system there now at Papago . . . like soccer penalties . . . They give you the Yellow card to hurry up, then the Red card to skip a hole and catch up . . . I was bustling as best I could, but I didn't want to get out in front of my duffers too much . . .

#8 is a monstrously long par 3 - 253 yds . . . I just figgered I'd hit a 3 wood up on the left side and not challenge the bunkers . . . the pin was way on the right side . . . I was feeling better about my driver, but not that much better -- who knows where it would go under the pressure of such a landing area?

But I missed the green left so I had a pitch back over to the pin from about where their cart is. I hadn't calculated the steepness of that green back to front, and my ball wound up pin high, but 25 ft below the hole.

My first putt was 8 feet too hard, and pulled left -- very similar to my putting woes as of late -- then, in my haste to make up for the dilatoriness of my partners I missed below the hole on the comebacker . . . miss it, dangit, and the score be dam'ed, but not on the low side, moron . . . .8^D . . . so that's 11 putts on the front side . . . still purty good for Duffer Dave, especially after a layoff . . .

I saw the marshal's cart circling back to us, like a great white shark as we walked back to the Tips . . . man, it looks like a long way from there on the par 5 #9 . . . I think this photo is from by the Ladies' tee.

Lars hit a giant shot, the first he'd been pleased with since the first tee, but I absolutely crushed mine, bounced his on the fly, then rolled past 20 yds.

The marshal didn't actually say anything about pace-of-play, but he asked me if I wanted a lift, but I shook him off. Then the cart girl came by and I stopped to get another gatorade . . . the marshal was waiting for me so I did take a ride, then, when he asked where my ball was, I pointed up just past the first trap. He was incredulous -- I guess he had seen my swing, even if he didn't see where it went -- 8^D . . . so he was joshin' me about makin 4, and I said, "Well, it's about 280, so I think I'll muscle up a 3wood and see if I can't turn it into an 8!" But I hit a low bullet straight at the green that wound up at the base of the green elevation. The marshall rode me up there -- even more in disbelief -- and asked what kind of shot I'd play, flop or bump-and-run . . . I said, "I'm gonna give it the old west-texas / st.andrews bump-and-run." He thought that was a good idea and went off to try to pacify the Pro so agitated about our slow play . . . I did run my ball up there about 4 ft away, but I missed the birdie, dangit.

Plus, in all the hub-bub, and in-and-out of the cart, and joshin with the marshal and the cart girl, she'd given me a cup with a hole in it, and half my gatorade went into my bag while I wasn't looking . . . it was leaking outta my bag for 3 holes after that .

So, the Marshal gave us the official word that we needed to speed up and watched us hit off. Then he gave me a ride again, to appease the boss in the pro-shop. Was fine with me but it had interfered with my photography on 9 and now on 10 . . .

"Where'd you go, partner?" He asked. "I kinda skied it up the right side". "In the rough?" "Could be -- naw, there it is." "Well, that's a great drive! You're only 240 out!" "Well, I need that roll I didn't get" . . . 8^D. . . while I was waiting for the rest of my gang I took this one from the fairway . . . #10 is a par 5, reachable in 2, but I didn't like the way those traps set up in the front . . . I still tried my 3wood, but my heart and head wasn't into it . . . I toed it off to the right weakly . . . I still shoulda reached the green in 3 but I was a little frambunctionated now, and my wedge fatted up short too, so up over the traps and 2 putt for bogey. Pthththththththt.

We were kinda a disorganized group now, I putted out before the others had even reached the green, then fidgeted there off to the side while they finished. . . I had to wait for them, there were times when I had no idea which way to go for the next hole, and it's not obvious. . . and another thing . . . they could use some barber poles or just colored disks in the fairway to let you know distances better, 'specially for people not familiar with the course, with no idea how far things are.

The par 3 #11 looked pretty intimidating after all we'd been thru, but in my rush, I didn't have time to think about it, just walked up and hit a high, high 3 iron 21 ft from the pin . . . from the tee it looked really close.

Those large mounds around the green dwarf the slope and the undulations in the green, which are considerable.

I really charged the putt uphill, and was 4 ft long, but I made the come-backer, and still felt great about my putting.

This is a sorry little picture of a great little hole, the shortest par 4 on the course . . . I don't think it's really driveable at 326 yds, uphill, and protected by bunkers all across the front, but something bothered me and I just popped it up about 200 yds by those trees on the right, so that it rolled off into the desert scrub (it is really steep going right over there).

I took a desert drop, then hit a half PW 3 ft from the pin.

When I carelessly backhanded my putt into the hole, my partners were more amazed by that than any other part of my game. "Can you do that all the time?" they asked.

"Oh, fer shure!" I drawled, "All the time, anytime!"

I don't usually put my playing partners in the pictures, if I have pictures, I mean, not-for-nuthin', but I was so intent on getting the pictures AND hurrying up that day, that sometimes they're just in there. But you can see, how huge these greens are, and some of the undulation in this picture.

The par 4 #13 is another cute little hole, another birdie opportunity, but on this day, anything less than 450 yds drew my short par 4 bug-a-boo . . . I didn't make 6s on them (all), but I made 'em interesting . . .

on this one, trying to avoid a pull-hook with an intentional block, I stood too close to the ball and blocked it straight into the tall eucalyptae on the right.

It's a short hole so it was no big deal to hit a wood from there, then a short wedge and 2putt for bogey . . . but it shure felt like a missed opportunity to not even get a birdie attempt on a hole like that, especially when the pin's just in the middle, like that.

gagggggghhhhh!

Next Time!

I don't remember the par4 #14 at all, the drive, the second shot, or why I took a double- bogey. . . it does look uphill, but that hardly seems like enough explanation . . .

the 585 Par 5 # 15th is the hole that made me the most gloomy in my Quest For Eagles . . . I mean, I have no chance to actually reach such a hole in 2 unless it's way downhill, but I hit two such screaming honkers I only had 90 yds left for my 3rd shot. I majesticated my drive right down the middle, then roped my 3wood down the right side. So now I'm trying to feather a half-wedge over a sandtrap onto the green, but

what I didn't realize was that there was a 2nd trap nestled into the crook of the green, behind the huge bunker I could see.

It shouldn't matter, but I aimed -- to be safe -- right of the pin to the fat of the green, then hit my shot thin -- which can give it some spin, y'know, sometimes -- but it hit the lip of that second bunker and fell back in.

Couldn't get it up-and-down, so got a bogey. I don't get it . . . this par 5 is harder than a lot of par 5s that are #1 handicaps at other courses, but it's only #12.

The par 4 #16 is the #2 handicap hole.
Under the glooming and darkening skies, we pressed on, we were back in position, sometimes even waiting on the group in front of us. I hit another amazing tee shot that wound up placed exactly in the middle of the fairway, again . . . I mean, I drove the ball as well as any duffer can expect, long and straight, I am not unhappy with my final score, but it should have been lower, given where I started most holes. I putted well, too, it was just that some of those short wedges weren't on . . . bladed a few, hit one fat . . .

so hit my magic 7wood up near the green, then hit a marginal pitch/chip onto the green, then miss a long, but makeable par putt and tap-in using the back of my putter for the pleasure of my playing partners for a bogey.

So I am pleased to make not worse than bogey on almost all these holes, they're so long, but then tap-in bogeys always fill one with a certain feeling that one could have done better with only a little more effort, a little more concentration, a little more luck. . . if you see what I mean . . .

#17 is the last of the monster par3s, 243 yds . . . the pin was on the left and I tho't I could sling it in there with that hook I get when I guide my tee shot, but it all double-crossed me and I hit a tight-fade over by that tree on the right -- no trouble -- just offline.

I lobbed my ball just on the edge of the green from there and it ran 8 ft past the pin. Good line.

Another tap-in bogey, when I pulled the par putt. Although I'd started free of this fatal flaw, I seemed doomed to finish the round with it.

To the weary walker, that 18th tee shot is formidable, it seems all up hill, and into the wind, and a very long way. Somehow, I timed my lurch-&-lunge well enough that I hit a power fade into the middle of the fairway, up at the top of the crest, not quite to the tree there on the right.

All my partners flew off into the desert on the right . . . y'all are nothin' but a bunch of corner-cutters I teased 'em . . . but they seemed pleased to be able to find their balls.

I had around 190 left, but a front pin position and the wind coming from the left . . . I tho't if I hit a 3/4 7wood (a very imprecise operation -- I have the 1/2 shot and full shot, but 3/4s is a little too ambitious for me) at the traps on the left, the wind would push it down and right towards the pin.

I mean, it'd worked all week for me over xmas, when I played TigerWoods P360 golf . . . 8^D . . .

but I hadn't allowed enough -- that's ok, I don't like to aim actually into trouble, just sorta towards trouble for a shot -- and I wound up pin high, off the green, as you can see here . . .

I chipped with a 9iron, using a putting stroke, aiming 2 yds right of the pin, but I shoulda used the 7iron . . . it bounced twice in the rough and sorta died, leaving me a long 4 ft for par.

I just backhanded the putter one more time for the pleasure of my playing partners, no prob.

Wound up with 42-43=85, which is better than I was doing playing once a week, so I have no explanation. 30 Putts, no birdies.

7544 Yds, Par 72, Slope 137, by Schmidt-Curley

They Say: "Spread out over 320 acres and enhanced with a significant earth move, the course is reminiscent of the great links courses with wild, rugged land forms covered in native grasses. Within the undulating mounds are pockets of sandy hollows creating a dunes-land appearance. The course invites you to hit your driver on almost every long hole. However, the course places the greatest demand and premium on the approach shot into a small, well designed greens complex."

This is a very tough course, tougher, we felt, than its Slope indicates . . . neither of us was in fighting trim, it seems . . . Mr Science had a 94 and I had 96 . . . 'course last week we had 95s at papago, but what with injuries, rustiness, and unfamiliarity with the courses, we can find an excuse somewhere . . .

The main problem we had was that we had no idea how far anything was . . . no yardage books and no barber-poles to help judge distances . . . just some sprinkler heads occasionally.

On a course with roly-poly greens, heavily bunkered fairways, and long-grass rough -- not to mention desert, it seems only fair to us that there should be some help, especially for the first-timer, on where to hit the ball . . . many holes look like there is no option other than laying back 250 from the green.
I include this picture of Mr Science just after his 2nd shot on #12 . . . I mean, he's in position A, but his ball has just come up short-right in that giant bunker in front of that elevated green, wind-blown . . . you can almost see exasperation in his body-language . . . 8^D . . . you can also almost see my ball in the bunker in front of him . . . I'd ripped a drive down the center with a little bit of draw, but it wound up in the bunker anyway, windblown and the slope-of-the-fairway . . . if we had only known -- as we kept saying all day -- that the bunker on the left side was easily carryable, we both would have had easier 2nd shots . . . I like to say fairway bunkers don't bother me, but my 2nd came up 1 foot short and buried into the face of that sumbitch. I hit my best shot all day out of that bunker, it went about 4 ft, just out of the bunker, then I finished what was my best hole of the day with a chip to tap-in distance for a bogey . . . I hit 5 great shots on a par 4 and made bogey.

I'm really upset with how poorly my photos came out, I had a smudge on my lens or something and linksy courses often don't photo that well anyway from ground level . . . but on the other hand they sorta do reflect how perplexing the course looked to us . . . this is #14, the only hole that Freddy Couples actually had a hand in . . . by this point, I didn't want to lay up, but I hooked my shot around that big bunker on the left, rather than at the green -- I had no idea what was over there. Likewise, Mr Science pulled his drive straight over that bunker. When we got up to our balls they were pin-high, 30 yds left of the green, on a giant hump covered in tall rough. I lobbed a high, high 1/3-wedge that landed on the back of the green and backed slowly towards the pin. "I meant to do that!" I claimed. Mr Science hit his L-wedge on a lower tragectory that landed pinhigh left of the pin, but kicked hard toward the pin, down to a couple of ft away. "I'll have to show you how to hit that sideways spin, sometime!" chortled Mr Science. I missed my 8ft, but he easily made his. "Good birdie," I told him . . . with a pitying look, he replied, "It's a par 3." A 257 yd par 3 . . .

"Did you par any of the long par3s at papago last week?" I asked him. . . "N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o".

Well, this one's harder than any of those . . . Mr Science counted 14 bunkers.

If we had only known, I think you can always hit over the bunkers on one side, it's just that optically and psychologically, in a McKinsian way, the course is very deceptive and intimidating. Ordinarily, I'd be hot to go back and show I could do better, but without a yardage book, it'd take more'n one visit . . . plus it is a long way down there from Scottsdale . . . but it's Troon managed, and it's obviously a good course . . .

This is #18 . . . it might be the most wide-open hole on the course, but all those bunkers do give you pause. We both hit good drives, and had the same distance in . . . Mr Science put a 7iron onto the middle of the green, but I tried to shoehorn a 6iron into the back of the green . . . the first one frittered off weakly into the water on the right, but the second attempt landed stiff to the pin -- and then bounced off into the bunker behind the green . . . Mr Science calmly made his 2 putt par, while I hit a career sandshot to give me a tap-in-6 . . . that was the difference in our scores, those 2 shots . . . 8^D . . .

So I think we'll give it 2s, but it's a little grudging . . . It's a great course, but I'm not sure it really competes for Best In The Valley . . . It might be the best desert-links in the valley . . . I dunno, I just didn't play well enough to be sure of my judgement . . .

$15 Million

They Say: "A Greg Nash designed course where golfers can expect a scenic, playable layout that blends seamlessly with the area`s natural surroundings. Mission Royale is an integral part of Meritage Corporation`s new 835 acre active adult development."

6700 Yds, Slope 122, Par 72

Imagine a Sun City Course transplanted to Chandler, to the glee of aged golfers all over South Phoenix; imagine that it is Cimarron, also by Greg Nash. I don't think you'd be far wrong. That wouldn't be a bad thing, for it is very like but also different. I've wound up rating it a 3, while Mr Science gives it a 4, because of disorganized operations, no warm up balls, and architectural issues with the course, especially #18.

Course, it was 6am, the Starter just said, "Soon as you can see, you can tee off. . . ". And it was a mite chilly, too, I was glad I had my sleeveless windbreaker with the Papago Logo on it. Mr Science had to air-swing (like air guitar) to warm up (both limber up and keep his blood moving). He probably never really got going to play the way he thinks he ought to play all the time -- too cold, but still he methodically shot his 44-44=88, with only 4 pars. I had a 46-42=88, with 4 pars and a birdie on 18.

Even 'fore we teed off on 18, Mr Science was dissing it as a finishing hole, "Lookatit!" he pointed from the tee, "a straightaway reachable par 4. THAT's going to make for some excitement!" 8^P

And sure enough, he hit 5iron-9iron onto the green and two-putted for par. Woo Hoo.

Oh, wait a minute that gives him a 44-43=87 -- I'm pretty sure he parred there.

I, OTOH, hit a half driver 60 yds short of the green, then a half-wedge 4 ft below the hole, almost a one-hander for birdie.

"I don't know about you," I said to Mr Science, "but I AM excited." . . . 8^D. . .

phoenix leaders weighing future city golf courses

Nearly four years after approving a $17 million plan to keep city-owned golf courses open, Phoenix leaders could once again debate whether to stay in the golf business. The Parks and Recreation Department says more rounds are being played, but program remains in the red.

papago

cave creek

aguila

maryvale now called Grand Canyon University Course

encanto

6712 Yds, Par 72, Slope 123, by Gary Panks

Golfweb

They Say: Dobson Ranch Golf Course is an 18-hole championship golf course featuring mature landscaping and large greens. Twice voted Best Public Golf Course by readers of a popular Valley entertainment guide, golfers appreciate the excellent course condition and playability.

[Can you believe that's the picture they use to advertise themselves?]

This'd be more like the low-end Muni efforts by Gary Panks, than the more exotic opportunities he has had. It's still a nice course, similar in condition to Apache Creek, and almost as flat, but with tons more trees and no desert transition areas . . . a park-style course in the old Phoenix mold.

The Clubhouse complex deserves mention: it is huge, with several outbuildings, including one for club repair (I couldn't tell if it was ever open); the driving range is also rather commodious; there are two practice greens, and if the whole course was a lush as this area, it would be a very fine resort facility. The Ranch House Restaurant and Bar which serves the golf course instead of the caddy-shack kind of operation was a little strange, full of antiques and bric-a-brac like it'd been decorated by a bunch of little old ladies, but the corned beef hash was mighty tasty and my old club in Houston had a piano bar, so, who is to say what's right?

But despite being suitably fortified and "warmed up" by playing the day before at Apache Creek, I couldn't get started well playing consistent until the 8th hole, from there on out, I had 7 pars; something about shortening my backswing and swinging under control, I guess. I wound up with a 52-44=96. Which didn't feel great, but a heckuva lot better than the daylong torture the day before. Note that back 9 is 500 yds shorter than the front nine, tho'.

Mr. Science Reminisces: Another good round, overall, but much less consistent. Better ball-striking even than yesterday, but the putting was lacking. I arrived at the 18th tee having made 10 pars and one birdie, but 6 over par and thinking I was 5 over. 65 yards from the pin in 2 on the par-5 18th, needing to get up and down to, I thought, again equal my best. 55 yards from the pin in 3, thinking I can still break 80 even with a double bogey. Shot 80.

Yeah, I remember that last hole. While Mr. Science floundered there, I finished strong. Condition-wise this course has it all over the other Phoenix-area Munis, but that doesn't make it a better golf course than Cave Creek, Aguilera, or Papago.

7068 yds, Par 72, Slope 128, by William Bell, Re-fit by Jack Snyder.

Golfweb

"Papghetto" the same way as Encanto is "Enchanto". But we felt that the course was in very playable shape. Definitely, a solid "3". Sure it could have been in better shape and it seems kind of long-in-the-tooth, but the layout is very fine; the scenery, beautiful, even if not breath-taking; and the golf itself is very challenging. This is definitely the most difficult of the Phoenix Munis, although I can easily believe that Cave Creek is the most popular.

I shot a 46-43=89; Mr. Science a 43-42=85. If I could putt, I would've shot low-80s . . . part of that was the fair-&-challenging greens, but most of it is I have just lost my touch (or my concentration (or my courage)) on short ones for par. I made some heroic lag putts that left me with tap-ins, but my short game and putting otherwise is killing me. The course is long-and-tough, but also sort-of wide open, so that there is usually a chance for a recovery shot, long as you don't mind clanging your club off a rock or two.

The way the holes look from the tee is really beautiful: narrow fairways with wide shouldered, close-cut dormant bermuda rough, surrounded by red-rock hills and old, old trees that seem to come into play, often. Hardly a flat-lie to be found, either.

Note that the first two holes are on the AZCentral Best 18 holes in Phoenix

I'd have to play it again to get a sense of the course, I mean, the strategy of the course . . . the only thing that comes to mind now is how hard the last 3 holes were, the #2, #8, & #4 handicap holes, 443 par 4, 227 par 3, & 443 par 4. I was striking the ball fairly well, and playing smart, but just not able to get it in the hole . . . by the time we finished of course, it was a 5 hour round, and my attention span tends to wander after that long, especially walking.

The only bloggable thing that happened out of the ordinary was on #9, a par 5 with water running down most of the right side. Our playing companion, Rasputin, the mad duffer, for whom golf seems to aggravate his ADHD, had kind of a difficult shot out of the trees from behind the water, and when he hit is ball, the ball DID go over the water into the next copse, but his 7 iron snapped off at the kick point and the club head went into the water hazard, well out of reach. "These are Ping Eye 2 clubs!" he wailed, "a pro told me they were worth $3000! What should I do? Should I go in there after it?" And so on, for the next 9 holes, "What do you think I should do? Give me your advice! Can I tip the greenskeeper? Will they let me dive for it?"

"Hey man!" I finally said, "Just look on EBAY for a new 7 iron . . . "

Name	Yards	Par	Slope	Cactus Dave Rating	Mr. Science Rating	Architect
Rancho Manana	6016	70	128	1	2	Bill Johnston	Very scenic, interesting, mountainous, harder than it looks on paper
Boulders South Course	6726	71	139	2	1	Jay Morrish
Estrella Mountain Ranch	7139	72	135	2	1	Jack Nicklaus II	Top Shelf
Gold Canyon Dinosaur Mountain	6653	70	143	2	1	Nash & Cavanaugh	challenging
Grayhawk Raptor Course	7135	72	143	2	1	Tom Fazio	dreamy, hilariously difficult
Las Sendas	6874	71	145	2	1	Robert Trent Jones	Hardest public course in Phoenix
Quintero	7208	72	147	2	1	Rees Jones	Private; ludicrously difficult, gorgeous, manicured
Raven at Verrado	7258	72	132	2	1	John Fought	great shape, interesting holes, nice clubhouse,very friendly staff
SunRidge Canyon	6766	72	152	2	1	Keith Foster	Hard, Scenic, Well maintained, Friendly Staff
Troon North Tournament	7025	72	147	2	1	Weiskopf & Morrish	Tough Course, Great Golf, Fabulous Facility, Gracious Staff, but . . .
We-Ko-Pa Cholla	7225	72	136	2	1	Scott Miller	Very scenic, desert, challenging
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro	6912	71	138	2	1	Crenshaw & Coore	http://www.wekopa.com/layout9.asp?id=236&page=25959
Ancala Country Club	7000	72	138	2	2	Pete Dye	private; say no more.
Boulders North Course	6811	72	137	2	2	Jay Morrish
Eagle Mountain	6802	71	139	2	2	Scott Miller	Beautiful course, beautiful views
Gold Canyon Sidewinder	6509	71	130	2	2	Nash & Cavanaugh	Scenic, challenging design
Grayhawk Talon Course	7000	72	140	2	2	Graham & Panks
Legacy	6816	71	128	2	2	Gary Panks	nice timeshare resort, classy
Legend Trail	6815	72	135	2	2	Rees Jones	Elegant, Sophisticated, Challenging
Longbow	7003	71	125	2	2	Ken Cavanaugh	Interesting, beautiful, challenging, & enjoyable
Los Caballeros Wickenburg	7014	72	135	2	2	Greg Nash	& Jeff Hardin
Ocotillo	6804	71	130	2	2	Ted Robinson	Lush, Challenging, water, water, everywhere
Pointe at Lookout Mtn.	6535	71	135	2	2	Bill Johnston	Fabulous views, Marble Rest Rooms!
Raven at South Mountain	7078	72	130	2	2	Graham & Panks
Sanctuary	6624	71	139	2	2	Heckenkemper	Narrow fairways, penal rough. Back 9 may be best 9 in the valley.
Sedona Golf Resort	6646	71	128	2	2	Gary Panks	Very scenic, mountainous
Southern Dunes	7494	72	137	2	2	Schmidt / Curley	Tough Desert Links, Troon Managed, much better than Copper Canyon+A1
Stone Ridge	7052	72	132	2	2	Heckenkemper	Spacious compared to Sanctuary; seems harder than 132 slope
Talking Stick North Course	7133	70	125	2	2	Crenshaw & Coore
Talking Stick South Course	6833	71	125	2	2	Crenshaw & Coore
Tonto Verde Peaks Course	6737	72	132	2	2	Graham & Panks	Fabulous Views, Great Condition, Interesting Course
TPC of Scottsdale Stadium Course	7216	71	138	2	2	Weiskopf & Morrish	PGA Tour venue, pricey, difficult;
Trilogy at Vistancia	7269	72	134	2	2	Gary Panks	Unique uncut native grass rough, tough holes
Troon North Pinnacle	7044	72	147	2	2	Tom Weiskopf	Lopsided design, but Awesome
Vista Verde	7219	72	144	2	2	Ken Cavanaugh	Awesome, Underutilized Course
Vistal	7013	71	129	2	2	Lehman,Twitty,Mayfair	Worth multiple visits
Whirlwind Cattail Course	7218	72	132	2	2	Gary Panks	tough, scenic, lush, Best Solo Panks?
Wigwam Gold Course	7430	72	135	2	2	Robert Trent Jones	Unrelenting, Implacable, Merciless
Wildfire Faldo Course	6846	71	127	2	3	Nick Faldo	somewhat linksy, good
Corte Bella	7011	72	129	3	2	Gary Panks	Interesting(Difficult) Greens, Plush, manicured, Troon-managed
Dove Valley Ranch	7011	72	131	3	2	Robert Trent Jones, Jr	Awesome, interesting course, might be underrated
Kierland Resort Golf Course	6913	72	131	3	2	Scott Miller	Awesome Resort, Beautiful, Wide-open course
Poston Butte	7282	72	127	3	2	Gary Panks	Well deserved Reputation, very panksian, walkable
Tatum Ranch	6856	72	127	3	2	Robert Cupp	Private; Beautiful views, conditions, wide greenbelts, devlish greens
Tonto Verde Ranch Course	6988	72	130	3	2	Gary Panks	lush, scenic, Panksian Greens
Whirlwind Devils Claw	7029	72	129	3	2	Gary Panks	lush, scenic, Panksian Greens
Aguila	6962	72	129	3	3	Gary Panks	Good Muni, needs TLC, still playable
Antelope Hills North	6844	71	131	3	3	Lawrence Hughes	Old-school park design, hilly, tough rough, lots of trees
Antelope Hills South	7014	72	124	3	3	Gary Panks	Typical Panks atypically hilly, sorta linksy
Arizona Biltmore Links	6300	71	125	3	3	Bill Johnston	fantastic back9, quirky 3s
Arizona Golf Resort	6574	71	121	3	3	Jack Snyder
Arizona Traditions	6073	70	115	3	3	Dick Bailey
Arrowhead CC	7001	72	124	3	3	Arnold Palmer	Not as dynamic as Arrowhead Legend, but better condition
ASU Karsten	7057	72	132	3	3	Pete Dye	Railroad ties. Rubber Mats. No Pull Carts. Cramped layout.
Camelback Resort Course	6903	72	132	3	3	Arthur Hills	Interesting & Challenging
Cave Creek	6732	72	119	3	3	Jack Snyder	The Favorite Muni, Desert Links, TOUGH Greens
Club West Golf Course	7149	72	129	3	3	Brian Whitcomb	Friendly staff, Spectacular South Mountain views
Coldwater	6758	72	121	3	3	Forrest Richardson	"best course to play on a budget"; Railroad Tie Bunker
Copper Canyon	6845	72	125	3	3	Schmidt / Curley	Neighborhood Construction, way out west, Troon managed
Coyote Lakes	6213	71	120	3	3	Jack Snyder	Short but entertaining
Desert Canyon	6415	71	123	3	3	John Allen	Every Visit improves our opinion . . .
Eagles Nest	6790	72	130	3	3	Keith Foster	Good Layout over very ordinary ground
Falcon Golf Course	6673	71	128	3	3	Brian Curley	Abandoned Air Force base? Great Par 3s. Good Condition?
Foothills	6968	72	132	3	3	Brian Whitcomb	Lopsided design, best Breakfast Burrito in the Valley
Franscisco Grande	7545	72	130	3	3	Plummer	Not The Phoenician nor Kierland
Grande Valley Ranch	7183	72	125	3	3	Forrest Richardson	Great Back 9
Granite Falls North	6720	72	115	3	3	Greg Nash	(& Billy Caspar) Typical Sun City Course
Granite Falls South	6939	72	112	3	3	Greg Nash	http://www.grandinfo.com/spage.php?shw=100044&m=glf
Hillcrest	7002	72	126	3	3	Greg Nash	Subtle -- Worth more Study
Johnson Ranch	7141	72	130	3	3	Brian Whitcomb	Different 9s, Amazing views, "unfinished"
Ken McDonald	6743	72	125	3	3	Jack Snyder	Good Muni; Best Breakfast Sandwich
Kokopelli	6716	72	135	3	3	Bill Phillips	Nice course, good price, AGC
Las Colinas	6655	71	120	3	3	Mike Asmundson	green park style, duffer-friendly
Legend at Arrowhead	6969	72	131	3	3	Arnold Palmer	AGC run
Lone Tree	7007	71	123	3	3	Darryl Wilson	almost too nice -- over-engineered?
McCormick Ranch (Palms)	7044	72	137	3	3	Desmond Muirhead	A "subtle" Desmond Muirhead Design, perhaps? Best Full Breakfast!
McCormick Ranch (Pine)	7187	72	130	3	3	Desmond Muirhead	Harder than the Palms, but much the same
Mountain Brook	6620	71	120	3	3	Brian Whitcomb	http://www.mountainbrookgolf.com/golf/proto/mountainbrookgolf/index.htm
Oakwood Golf Club Palms / Sonoran	6567	72	129	3	3	Gary Panks
Oasis Golf Resort	7366	72	133	3	3		9Holes, Unexpectedly Interesting, Very Few Amenities
Orange Tree	6775	72	121	3	3	Johnny Bulla	Resort, Flat, unimaginative, mostly wide-open, grainy greens
Palm Valley	7015	72	133	3	3	Arthur Hills	Subtle Challenges
Papago	7333	72	130	3	3	Bill Bell	60s vintage park-style
Phoenician Desert / Canyon	6068	70	131	3	3	Ted Robinson	Best views in Phoenix; course has odd layout & landscaping;
Stone Creek	6872	72	134	3	3	Arthur Hills	Subtle, good condition, Surprising in places
Sun City Grand Cimmaron	6809	72	123	3	3	Greg Nash	wide open, with subtle difficulties
Sundance Golf Club	6944	72	125	3	3	Greg Nash	many interesting holes, house construction on all sides detracts
Superstition Springs Golf Club	7005	72	130	3	3	Greg Nash	AGC Course, en deshabille, interesting
TPC Champions	7113	71	140	3	3	Heckenkemper	Harder now, but not more interesting.
Trilogy at Power Ranch	6740	71	128	3	3	Dick Bailey	Very good back 9, scenic
Tuscany Falls	6610	72	126	3	3	Dick Bailey	more interesting than it looks, but not harder than it looks
Westbrook Village Vistas	6432	72	120	3	3	Ken Cavanaugh	Not comparable to Gold Canyon nor Vista Verde
Wigwam Blue	6000	70	120	3	3	Robert Trent Jones	Deceptively Difficult; short; penal; tiny greens hard to read
WigWam Red	6852	72	126	3	3	Red Lawrence	Old Phoenix Park Style
Wildfire Palmer Course	7145	72	135	3	3	Arnold Palmer	desert links, just lacks sump'n sump'n
Bear Creek	6900	71	128	3	4	Jack Nicklaus	Best Desert Links in the Valley, Very Inexpensive, Underfacilitated
Mission Royale	6700	72	122	3	4	Greg Nash	Like a Sun City course, only W-a-y back east in Chandler
Apache Creek	6795	71	128	4	3	Joe Alsip	Flat, but very interesting and bumpy greens
Arizona Biltmore Adobe	6428	71	123	4	3	Bill Bell	flat, rather uninteresting, good condition
Camelback Club Course	7014	72	122	4	3	Jack Snyder	Flat, Old Fashioned, non-desert course
Dobson Ranch	6712	72	123	4	3	Gary Panks	Lusher than Phoenix Munis, but not as interesting
Duke	7011	72	120	4	3	Dave Druzisky	Western theme fits Duke course
Links at Queen Creek	6010	70	113	4	3	Sam Wese	Short, unimaginative, unimposing
Villa de Paz	6641	71	123	4	3	Greg Nash	&Jeff Hardin -- Flat & Unmemorable
500 Club	6976	72	120	4	4	Brian Whitcomb	Amazing back 9, noisy, tho'
Ahwatukee	6713	72	120	4	4	Gary Panks	Panks Worst Tendencies
Bougainvillea	6817	72	118	4	4	Dan Pohl	Too flat, too wide open; "Bogey-ville"; Pohl-cat
Great Eagle	6646	72	124	4	4	Greg Nash	http://www.greateaglegolfclub.com/
Ironwood	5286	67	99	4	4	Keith Foster	Nice, but short, interesting greens
Painted Mountain	6021	70	114	4	4	Frank Boxberger	Mesa, short, OK
Pueblo at El Mirage	6596	72	125	4	4	Fuzzy Zoeller	Tornado Target
Scottsdale Country Club Starfire	6093	68	123	4	4	Arnold Palmer	Hawk & Squire #7s stand out
Silverado	6313	70	116	4	4	Ross Graves	& Jack Gilmore -- Interesting track, no range, no frills
Sun City Lakes West	6251	72	119	4	4	Greg Nash	short and wide, but not defenseless
Sun City North	6410	72	117	4	4	Greg Nash	http://www.sunaz.com/northgolfcourse.htm
Sun City Riverview	6394	72	116	4	4	Greg Nash	http://www.sunaz.com/riverviewgolfcourse.htm
Sun City South	6774	72	115	4	4	Greg Nash	http://www.sunaz.com/southgolfcourse.htm
Sun City Willow Creek	6366	72	119	4	4	Greg Nash	http://www.sunaz.com/willowcreekgolfcourse.htm
Western Skies	6744	72	123	4	4	Olenoski Design	We both birdied 8, a short par 4
San Marcos	6856	72	121	4		Bill Robinson	http://www.sanmarcosresort.com/
Estrella Mountain Golf Course	6866	71	118	4	5		hidden values; 2nd best fried egg sandwich in PHX; raggedy
Phantom Horse	6336	71	125	4	5	Forrest Richardson	poor shape, excellent vistas -- Best Breakfast Taco
Encanto	6386	70	111	5	4	Bill Bell	Just too short and uninspired; OK for a muni
Maryvale	6646	72	119	5	4	Bill Bell	60s vintage park-style
Starfire King-Hawk	6073	70	123	5	4		Nice course, good price
Toka Sticks	6605	72	119	5	4	Corps of Engineers	The GolfCourses.net
Pavilion Lakes	6557	71	120	5	5		flat , ugly, poor condition
Viewpoint	6324	71	116	5	5		Easy, short, good for walking
Apache Wells	6038	71	114	5			Flat, short, & ugly
Other Arizona Courses
Del Lago Tucson	7206	72	142		2		Vail, AZ (E of Tucson) very nice
Apache Gold	7519	72	138		2	Tom Doak	http://www.golfapache.com/
Lake Powell	7030	72	154		2	William Phillips	http://www.golflakepowell.com/
London Bridge East Course	6140	71	124	3		Lawrence Hughes	Ordinary Fun
London Bridge West Course	6613	71	122	3		Lawrence Hughes	Longer Ordinary Fun
Unreviewed/Unrated
Desert Springs	7006	72	131			Greg Nash	& Caspar --
Gainey Ranch							http://www.gaineyranchcc.com/
Executive Courses
1st Tee South Mountain	1800	54		1		Tom Fazio	Excellent 1st Tee course
Augusta Ranch	3799	61	88		1		Well Done, Well Maintained
Mountain Shadows	3081	56	96		1	Jack Snyder	Awesome Excutive, Best In Class
Continental					2		Driving range
El Caro	3357	60	80		2	Bruce Devlin
Sunland Village	3623	62			2		Retirable
Ahwatukee Lakes Course	4745	62	95		3	Hale Irwin
1st Tee Desert Mirage	2095	31		3			OK 1st Tee Course
Bear Creek Cub Course		59			3	Jack Nicklaus
Rolling Hills	3828	62	93		3	Gary Panks	Good Par 3s, Good Views, Rubber mats on Practice Tee
Shalimar	2417	33			3		only 9 holes, monotonous
Coronado	1850	62	75		4	Milt Coggins	"Worst & Most Beloved Golf Course in AZ"?
Country Meadows	4329	60	96	4	4		Lush, but scruffy
Cypress Golf Club	4907	65			4
Desert Sands	4029	65	58.9		4		Odiferous & Flat
Palo Verde	1820	30	78		4		9 hole version of Desert Sands, but not quite
Cactus Dave's Ratings							Mr. Science's Ratings
1: The one and only best course in Phoenix							1: Outstanding in every way. Pristine condition, fast and true greens, interesting and challenging design, courteous and attentive staff
2: These could be # 1 . . .							2: Excellent condition, well-run, nice course
3: These are good, but could never be # 1							3: Very good course, playable, but lack something to be #2
4: Just not as good as a '3'							4: OK, but not as good as a '3'
5: Dog Tracks							5: Too short, too easy, too flat, too slow, poorly maintained, or something else that makes it less enjoyable than it should be. Won't go back.
Unreviewed/Unrated							Unreviewed/Unrated