Thursday, September 13, 2012
PHX Munis
The City of
The city owns a superb array of courses, playable and enjoyable for skilled players and duffers alike. But they are financially struggling.
The golf courses are supposed to be self-supporting. According to current city policy, green fees and other golf-related income should cover the cost of operating the courses without any assistance from the general taxpayer.
Until about a decade ago, that was the case. Now, it isn’t. The accumulated deficit in the golf fund is now $12.4 million. The annual deficit is around $2.5 million.
Part of this is because the city decided to use golf and the golf fund to achieve social policies.
The Palo Verde golf course used to be private. In the late 1990s, the owner wanted to develop it, which made the neighbors apoplectic. So, the city bought it and stuck the golf fund with the cost. It’s been a money-loser ever since.
About the same time, Aguila was built in the southwest part of the city. Aguila is a great layout – a desert golf experience without the target-golf frustrations of many such courses.
But there wasn’t really a demand for a golf course in that area. It was built as an amenity for an underserved part of the city. Again, the golf fund got stuck with the cost of what was really a social policy, rather than a golf, decision.
The purchase of Palo Verde and the development of Aguila were financed through bonds paid off by the golf fund. The cost of doing so explains much of the current deficit.
Still, there are some harsh realities about the golf business that can’t be blinked away. Play has declined as the number of golf courses in the Valley proliferated. At present, there is an excess of supply to demand.
Rounds played at
The city has appointed a committee to figure out what to do about it. One possibility examined by city staff is to close up to three courses – Palo Verde, Aguila and Maryvale.
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/RobertRobb/172026
Sunday, November 09, 2008
Western Skies
Well, so, 3 wks ago, I played at Cave Creek, shot 82, felt like 102, because I putted so poorly . . . mainly due to the furry, post-over-seeding greens. . .
Then, 2 wks ago, I played at Aguila . . . shot 95 there . . . that felt like 105, cuz I didn't putt well on the furry greens, again, but I also had some blow-up holes that I'd managed to avoid for a while, especially the last 2 holes, where I got tired: still not back in walking shape, had to take an aleve-d for my allergies that made me a little dizzy and dehydrated, so I started flaring everything right . . .
So this week I played Western Skies with the Defenestrator . . . I shot 45-42, with 2 birdies, finally . . . hadn't had a birdie in a month . . . the main problem this time was 5 double bogeys including 2 in the last 3 holes, as I wearied again, and started flaring right. I did putt better on the closer-to-normal-but-still-wooly greens: witness the 2 back9 birdies that I DID make this week where the last two outings I had 2 back9 opportunities I failed to convert.
I have some other weird stats: 4 lip-outs, 4 3putts (I putted better, not great, if you see what I mean), 3 wedges pureed over the green, 3 more bladed over the green, and 1 chunked. They had had some big tournament earlier that morning, but we zipped around almost as fast as we could hoof it . . . but they had the pin positions in the most pernicious place on every single green . . . tucked into corners, on top of knobs, behind any bunker available, and/or at the edge of tier-slopes . . . hard to get close . . .
on the par 3 #11 I hit a one-liner fade within 3 ft . . . almost missed the birdie on the low side.
on the par 5 #12 I hit a ferocious drive and a bodacious 3wood 50 yds short of the green, against the wind . . . lobbed a little half-wedge pin-high, but 22 ft right of the pin . . . it was perfectly flat and straight, and the putt wiggled both ways out of the cup before it toppled in.
So that was my quota, but I wanted three, and then a personal best 4 birdies, but . . .
on the par 3 #13 I perfectly faded a half 7wood almost in the hole, but it hit a hard spot and bounced to the back of the green . . . I couldn't find a ball mark anywhere. . . .
on the par 4 #14 I hit my longest drive of the day, say 290, that left only 70-odd yds to the middle of the green, but my half-wedge missed the corner of the green where the pin was, and rolled up on one of those mounds into the fringe: 4 putts to get into the hole. grrrrrr.
so I put a little west-texas-red-ass on my next drive and left myself another half wedge to the green, but the pin was right behind a bunker in the center-front of the green, and, trying to get it close, hit it fat . . . hit the quarter-wedge next shot25 ft past the hole, 2 putted for bogey.
from then on I was flaring everything right . . . double bogeyed a par 3, with a chunk and a 3putt; bogeyed a long par 4 after missing a 3 foot par after a fabulous flop shot; double-bogeyed the long #18 -- failing to finish strong . . . bah!
won't be improving this ranking . . . still not one of the top-drawer courses . . . maybe if the greens had more than one pernicious pin setting, it could be a 3, but, we really don't like courses that use tricked-up greens to compensate for flat, wide-open fairways, do we. . .
Then, 2 wks ago, I played at Aguila . . . shot 95 there . . . that felt like 105, cuz I didn't putt well on the furry greens, again, but I also had some blow-up holes that I'd managed to avoid for a while, especially the last 2 holes, where I got tired: still not back in walking shape, had to take an aleve-d for my allergies that made me a little dizzy and dehydrated, so I started flaring everything right . . .
So this week I played Western Skies with the Defenestrator . . . I shot 45-42, with 2 birdies, finally . . . hadn't had a birdie in a month . . . the main problem this time was 5 double bogeys including 2 in the last 3 holes, as I wearied again, and started flaring right. I did putt better on the closer-to-normal-but-still-wooly greens: witness the 2 back9 birdies that I DID make this week where the last two outings I had 2 back9 opportunities I failed to convert.
I have some other weird stats: 4 lip-outs, 4 3putts (I putted better, not great, if you see what I mean), 3 wedges pureed over the green, 3 more bladed over the green, and 1 chunked. They had had some big tournament earlier that morning, but we zipped around almost as fast as we could hoof it . . . but they had the pin positions in the most pernicious place on every single green . . . tucked into corners, on top of knobs, behind any bunker available, and/or at the edge of tier-slopes . . . hard to get close . . .
on the par 3 #11 I hit a one-liner fade within 3 ft . . . almost missed the birdie on the low side.
on the par 5 #12 I hit a ferocious drive and a bodacious 3wood 50 yds short of the green, against the wind . . . lobbed a little half-wedge pin-high, but 22 ft right of the pin . . . it was perfectly flat and straight, and the putt wiggled both ways out of the cup before it toppled in.
So that was my quota, but I wanted three, and then a personal best 4 birdies, but . . .
on the par 3 #13 I perfectly faded a half 7wood almost in the hole, but it hit a hard spot and bounced to the back of the green . . . I couldn't find a ball mark anywhere. . . .
on the par 4 #14 I hit my longest drive of the day, say 290, that left only 70-odd yds to the middle of the green, but my half-wedge missed the corner of the green where the pin was, and rolled up on one of those mounds into the fringe: 4 putts to get into the hole. grrrrrr.
so I put a little west-texas-red-ass on my next drive and left myself another half wedge to the green, but the pin was right behind a bunker in the center-front of the green, and, trying to get it close, hit it fat . . . hit the quarter-wedge next shot25 ft past the hole, 2 putted for bogey.
from then on I was flaring everything right . . . double bogeyed a par 3, with a chunk and a 3putt; bogeyed a long par 4 after missing a 3 foot par after a fabulous flop shot; double-bogeyed the long #18 -- failing to finish strong . . . bah!
won't be improving this ranking . . . still not one of the top-drawer courses . . . maybe if the greens had more than one pernicious pin setting, it could be a 3, but, we really don't like courses that use tricked-up greens to compensate for flat, wide-open fairways, do we. . .
Wednesday, March 01, 2017
phoenix leaders weighing future city golf courses
phoenix leaders weighing future city golf courses
Nearly four years after approving a $17 million plan to keep city-owned golf courses open, Phoenix leaders could once again debate whether to stay in the golf business. The Parks and Recreation Department says more rounds are being played, but program remains in the red.
papago
cave creek
aguila
maryvale now called Grand Canyon University Course
encanto
Nearly four years after approving a $17 million plan to keep city-owned golf courses open, Phoenix leaders could once again debate whether to stay in the golf business. The Parks and Recreation Department says more rounds are being played, but program remains in the red.
papago
cave creek
aguila
maryvale now called Grand Canyon University Course
encanto
Thursday, January 26, 2006
Aguila
6936 Yds, Par 72, Slope 129, by Gary PanksGolfweb
This course shows what Gary Panks can do with a good piece of ground. The routing is economic in acreage, but varied in elevation and clever in spacing so that one hole's play doesn't often interfere with another's. Only on the first hole, when Mr. Science bladed his bunker shot over into the swale behind the green -- then there was some confusion in balls with an errant 4some near the 7th green.
"Only a great back-17 can rescue a 4-rating for this course," he complained, "that trap was full of footprints and a broken rake!" explaining his poor play. Like Miss Haversham's Mouldering Wedding Cake, the sides and shoulders of all the bunkers are caving in, and the dirty sand & gravel composition of the bunker is nasty.
Gary Panks should rush out there and rescue his course, because whether he was paid or gifted his services, his reputation could suffer unfairly from its poor condition. I think it is an excellent design over a great piece of property with fantastic views of South Mountain.
The two short par 4s, # 8 & #17 are diabolically bunkered and have water guarding the green. I guess some guys would call those drivable, but there is a very low risk/reward ratio. Mr. Science & I debated amiably how to play them . . . On #8, I hit 3 wood-PW, and he hit 5 iron-7iron and we wound up a foot from each other on the green. On #17, I hit 4iron-PW and he hit 3iron-7iron and I wound up in a bunker and him over the green. Mr Science had to hit a provisional after a very weak 3 iron, and he hit his driver about 40 yds short of the green, over the water. "THAT's the way to play THAT hole!" he told me.
This design is poetry, tho' not a sonnet like Stone Ridge, rather a sombre Spenserian couplet:
4-5-3, 4-5-4, 3-4-4
5-4-4, 3-4-5, 3-4-4
. . . short par 3 - short par 4 - long par 4.
Those par 3s may be the shortest set in the valley, but those greens are the most heavily bunkered on the course -- deep, amoeba-shaped traps that would be tough enough in good shape.
I had a 41-52=93, while Mr. Science carded his usual consistent - if higher than usu
al - 46-45=91 . . . he was grumbling on the front 9, but grunted in satisfaction at the final score, "At least the equilibrium in the Universe has been Restored."I certainly felt like the Cosmos conspired against me on the back 9. I was playing almost great, with a birdie and 2 pars on the last 4 holes of the front 9, and stood 115 yds short of the green on #10 with my sure-fire half-9 third shot, but the next thing I knew, I had 2 balls in the water then a 2 putt to save a 9; then the same thing happened to me on #18.
A good course in need of some TLC.
Wednesday, May 10, 2017
$15M for parks went to golf courses in Phoenix -- will parks get repaid?
$15 Million
Dustin Gardiner , The Republic | azcentral.com Published 7:02 a.m. MT May 9, 2017
A group of Phoenix activists are pushing the city to come up with a plan to repay more than $15 million from a voter-approved tax that funds parks. Four years ago, the City Council borrowed to pay off debt from struggling municipal golf courses.
The residents accuse Phoenix of illegally misusing money from the voter-approved parks initiative. City officials say the transfer of funds was allowed.
While the debate has simmered for several years, it has received increased attention from city leaders lately as the Parks and Recreation Department, which manages city golf courses, works to develop a plan to return the money. The city doesn't have any money to repay it today.
But the parks department is considering selling some of its unneeded properties so it can start repaying the money in the near future.
This is what you need to know about the ongoing standoff between activists and City Hall over parks money:
How did it start?
Nearly a decade ago, the city asked voters to extend a special sales tax to fund parks and preserves.
Ballot language for the 2008 Phoenix Parks and Preserve Initiative, which extended the tax for 30 years, stated the money would pay to maintain, improve and expand green spaces and desert trails. It didn't say anything about golf courses or paying off city debt.
Voters overwhelmingly supported the initiative, with nearly 83 percent signing off at the ballot box. The tax amounts to one cent for every $10 purchase.
But Phoenix leaders soon found an unexpected use for the money: debt-ridden city golf courses.
In 2013, the City Council voted to borrow more than $15 million from parks initiative funds to pay off debt from its struggling golf courses. The city's golf courses had lost money for more than a decade as the popularity of the sport declined.
Golf courses were a city enterprise fund, meaning they were supposed to operate as a self-sustaining business separate from the rest of the city's general-fund budget.
Because the courses kept racking up debt — Phoenix loaned money to itself to keep the enterprise fund afloat — council members later decided to close the separate golf fund and made golf part of the city's operating budget.
But the city still needed to get rid of about $15 million in debt the golf fund owed to the city. That's when the council voted to take it from parks initiative funds.
Council members vowed to repay the money, though none has been repaid to date.
Activists are pushing city leaders to make good on their commitment. They contend Phoenix's use of parks funds to erase red ink from golf courses betrayed the will of the voters, and the group has considered filing a lawsuit to force the repayment.
Greta Rogers, a resident and part of the group challenging the city's decision, has publicly blasted the move at numerous council meetings.
"They committed fraud," Rogers told The Arizona Republic. "It should never have gone to pay debt. Period."
She said if the city had told voters that parks initiative money would be used to pay off debt from failing golf courses, the measure never would have passed.
"Voters aren’t going to pay for government to screw up," Rogers said.
The city's current plan to repay the money seems improbable: Profits from golf course operations are expected to eventually fund it. But that won't happen anytime soon because the city says its courses must first break even and pay for $8 million in needed improvements, such as irrigation systems.
Phoenix's golf courses haven't made a profit for about two decades, and Rogers predicts the money will never get repaid under the current plan.
If the money materializes, the city could potentially use it help pay things like more rangers to patrol city parks, new playground equipment and trail maintenance and upgrades.
What do city officials say?
Phoenix-owned golfcourses
Here's a breakdown of how each course fared during the last fiscal year:
Aguila (18 holes)
8440 S. 35th Ave.
Rounds played: 61,454
Loss: $38,415
Cave Creek (18 holes)
15202 N. 19th Ave.
Rounds played: 56,804
Loss: $39,151
Encanto (18 and 9 holes)
2775 N. 15th Ave.
Rounds played: 47,323; 28,727
Profit: $38,866
Palo Verde (9 holes)
6215 N. 15th Ave.
Rounds played: 28,998
Loss: $211,848
Note: Two of the city's six golf courses, Papago and GCU, are operated and managed by ASU and GCU, respectively. The city did not have round numbers or financial returns for the performance of those courses. The schools bear any losses with those courses.
Parks and Recreation Director Inger Erickson said the use of initiative money to pay off the city's golf debt was necessary because the city's Finance Department feared outstanding golf debt could hurt the city's bond rating.
Erickson said the city has worked hard to stem its losses with golf courses by cutting costs and signing agreements for Arizona State University and Grand Canyon University to operate two of the city's six courses, which the schools use for their golf teams and various events.
ASU operates the Papago course in east Phoenix. GCU operates the former Maryvale course, now known as GCU Golf Course, and the university built a new clubhouse.
Erickson said the city still intends to repay parks initiative money it borrowed, but there is no timeline for when that could happen. Her department is working on a plan to possibly sell unneeded parks properties to come up with the money.
“I think everybody’s intention is to pay it back," she said. "How you get there is the question. I can’t create money. I can’t cut other programs to get to that."
The department is working to sell two properties right now: a vacant lot adjacent to the Rose Mofford Sports Complex near the Metrocenter Mall; and a vacant lot next to Kuban Park. Erickson said she will likely recommend the council use proceeds from the sale of those properties to begin repaying the debt.
It was unclear how soon the properties could be sold. Erickson said the city intends to sell them through a public-bid process.
Residents pushing the city to repay parks money say they welcome the proposal and hope the city will approve a specific plan outlining which unneeded parks properties will be sold.
How are city courses performing?
Erickson said the department plans for its golf courses to break even this year after many years in the red. In the last fiscal year, which ended June 30, 2016, the courses lost about $133,000.
Those losses were covered with money from the city's general fund. Erickson said the city has not budgeted any money to cover losses with the golf courses this year because it plans to break even.
But the popularity and fiscal performance of the city's courses varies. Just one golf course operated by the city, Encanto, made a profit last year.
Wednesday, June 28, 2017
Phoenix Golf Courses Reviewed & Rated by Cactus Dave & Mr Science
| Name | Yards | Par | Slope | Cactus Dave Rating | Mr. Science Rating | Architect | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Rancho Manana | 6016 | 70 | 128 | 1 | 2 | Bill Johnston | Very scenic, interesting, mountainous, harder than it looks on paper |
| Boulders South Course | 6726 | 71 | 139 | 2 | 1 | Jay Morrish | |
| Estrella Mountain Ranch | 7139 | 72 | 135 | 2 | 1 | Jack Nicklaus II | Top Shelf |
| Gold Canyon Dinosaur Mountain | 6653 | 70 | 143 | 2 | 1 | Nash & Cavanaugh | challenging |
| Grayhawk Raptor Course | 7135 | 72 | 143 | 2 | 1 | Tom Fazio | dreamy, hilariously difficult |
| Las Sendas | 6874 | 71 | 145 | 2 | 1 | Robert Trent Jones | Hardest public course in Phoenix |
| Quintero | 7208 | 72 | 147 | 2 | 1 | Rees Jones | Private; ludicrously difficult, gorgeous, manicured |
| Raven at Verrado | 7258 | 72 | 132 | 2 | 1 | John Fought | great shape, interesting holes, nice clubhouse,very friendly staff |
| SunRidge Canyon | 6766 | 72 | 152 | 2 | 1 | Keith Foster | Hard, Scenic, Well maintained, Friendly Staff |
| Troon North Tournament | 7025 | 72 | 147 | 2 | 1 | Weiskopf & Morrish | Tough Course, Great Golf, Fabulous Facility, Gracious Staff, but . . . |
| We-Ko-Pa Cholla | 7225 | 72 | 136 | 2 | 1 | Scott Miller | Very scenic, desert, challenging |
| We-Ko-Pa Saguaro | 6912 | 71 | 138 | 2 | 1 | Crenshaw & Coore | http://www.wekopa.com/layout9.asp?id=236&page=25959 |
| Ancala Country Club | 7000 | 72 | 138 | 2 | 2 | Pete Dye | private; say no more. |
| Boulders North Course | 6811 | 72 | 137 | 2 | 2 | Jay Morrish | |
| Eagle Mountain | 6802 | 71 | 139 | 2 | 2 | Scott Miller | Beautiful course, beautiful views |
| Gold Canyon Sidewinder | 6509 | 71 | 130 | 2 | 2 | Nash & Cavanaugh | Scenic, challenging design |
| Grayhawk Talon Course | 7000 | 72 | 140 | 2 | 2 | Graham & Panks | |
| Legacy | 6816 | 71 | 128 | 2 | 2 | Gary Panks | nice timeshare resort, classy |
| Legend Trail | 6815 | 72 | 135 | 2 | 2 | Rees Jones | Elegant, Sophisticated, Challenging |
| Longbow | 7003 | 71 | 125 | 2 | 2 | Ken Cavanaugh | Interesting, beautiful, challenging, & enjoyable |
| Los Caballeros Wickenburg | 7014 | 72 | 135 | 2 | 2 | Greg Nash | & Jeff Hardin |
| Ocotillo | 6804 | 71 | 130 | 2 | 2 | Ted Robinson | Lush, Challenging, water, water, everywhere |
| Pointe at Lookout Mtn. | 6535 | 71 | 135 | 2 | 2 | Bill Johnston | Fabulous views, Marble Rest Rooms! |
| Raven at South Mountain | 7078 | 72 | 130 | 2 | 2 | Graham & Panks | |
| Sanctuary | 6624 | 71 | 139 | 2 | 2 | Heckenkemper | Narrow fairways, penal rough. Back 9 may be best 9 in the valley. |
| Sedona Golf Resort | 6646 | 71 | 128 | 2 | 2 | Gary Panks | Very scenic, mountainous |
| Southern Dunes | 7494 | 72 | 137 | 2 | 2 | Schmidt / Curley | Tough Desert Links, Troon Managed, much better than Copper Canyon+A1 |
| Stone Ridge | 7052 | 72 | 132 | 2 | 2 | Heckenkemper | Spacious compared to Sanctuary; seems harder than 132 slope |
| Talking Stick North Course | 7133 | 70 | 125 | 2 | 2 | Crenshaw & Coore | |
| Talking Stick South Course | 6833 | 71 | 125 | 2 | 2 | Crenshaw & Coore | |
| Tonto Verde Peaks Course | 6737 | 72 | 132 | 2 | 2 | Graham & Panks | Fabulous Views, Great Condition, Interesting Course |
| TPC of Scottsdale Stadium Course | 7216 | 71 | 138 | 2 | 2 | Weiskopf & Morrish | PGA Tour venue, pricey, difficult; |
| Trilogy at Vistancia | 7269 | 72 | 134 | 2 | 2 | Gary Panks | Unique uncut native grass rough, tough holes |
| Troon North Pinnacle | 7044 | 72 | 147 | 2 | 2 | Tom Weiskopf | Lopsided design, but Awesome |
| Vista Verde | 7219 | 72 | 144 | 2 | 2 | Ken Cavanaugh | Awesome, Underutilized Course |
| Vistal | 7013 | 71 | 129 | 2 | 2 | Lehman,Twitty,Mayfair | Worth multiple visits |
| Whirlwind Cattail Course | 7218 | 72 | 132 | 2 | 2 | Gary Panks | tough, scenic, lush, Best Solo Panks? |
| Wigwam Gold Course | 7430 | 72 | 135 | 2 | 2 | Robert Trent Jones | Unrelenting, Implacable, Merciless |
| Wildfire Faldo Course | 6846 | 71 | 127 | 2 | 3 | Nick Faldo | somewhat linksy, good |
| Corte Bella | 7011 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 2 | Gary Panks | Interesting(Difficult) Greens, Plush, manicured, Troon-managed |
| Dove Valley Ranch | 7011 | 72 | 131 | 3 | 2 | Robert Trent Jones, Jr | Awesome, interesting course, might be underrated |
| Kierland Resort Golf Course | 6913 | 72 | 131 | 3 | 2 | Scott Miller | Awesome Resort, Beautiful, Wide-open course |
| Poston Butte | 7282 | 72 | 127 | 3 | 2 | Gary Panks | Well deserved Reputation, very panksian, walkable |
| Tatum Ranch | 6856 | 72 | 127 | 3 | 2 | Robert Cupp | Private; Beautiful views, conditions, wide greenbelts, devlish greens |
| Tonto Verde Ranch Course | 6988 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 2 | Gary Panks | lush, scenic, Panksian Greens |
| Whirlwind Devils Claw | 7029 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 2 | Gary Panks | lush, scenic, Panksian Greens |
| Aguila | 6962 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 3 | Gary Panks | Good Muni, needs TLC, still playable |
| Antelope Hills North | 6844 | 71 | 131 | 3 | 3 | Lawrence Hughes | Old-school park design, hilly, tough rough, lots of trees |
| Antelope Hills South | 7014 | 72 | 124 | 3 | 3 | Gary Panks | Typical Panks atypically hilly, sorta linksy |
| Arizona Biltmore Links | 6300 | 71 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Bill Johnston | fantastic back9, quirky 3s |
| Arizona Golf Resort | 6574 | 71 | 121 | 3 | 3 | Jack Snyder | |
| Arizona Traditions | 6073 | 70 | 115 | 3 | 3 | Dick Bailey | |
| Arrowhead CC | 7001 | 72 | 124 | 3 | 3 | Arnold Palmer | Not as dynamic as Arrowhead Legend, but better condition |
| ASU Karsten | 7057 | 72 | 132 | 3 | 3 | Pete Dye | Railroad ties. Rubber Mats. No Pull Carts. Cramped layout. |
| Camelback Resort Course | 6903 | 72 | 132 | 3 | 3 | Arthur Hills | Interesting & Challenging |
| Cave Creek | 6732 | 72 | 119 | 3 | 3 | Jack Snyder | The Favorite Muni, Desert Links, TOUGH Greens |
| Club West Golf Course | 7149 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 3 | Brian Whitcomb | Friendly staff, Spectacular South Mountain views |
| Coldwater | 6758 | 72 | 121 | 3 | 3 | Forrest Richardson | "best course to play on a budget"; Railroad Tie Bunker |
| Copper Canyon | 6845 | 72 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Schmidt / Curley | Neighborhood Construction, way out west, Troon managed |
| Coyote Lakes | 6213 | 71 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Jack Snyder | Short but entertaining |
| Desert Canyon | 6415 | 71 | 123 | 3 | 3 | John Allen | Every Visit improves our opinion . . . |
| Eagles Nest | 6790 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Keith Foster | Good Layout over very ordinary ground |
| Falcon Golf Course | 6673 | 71 | 128 | 3 | 3 | Brian Curley | Abandoned Air Force base? Great Par 3s. Good Condition? |
| Foothills | 6968 | 72 | 132 | 3 | 3 | Brian Whitcomb | Lopsided design, best Breakfast Burrito in the Valley |
| Franscisco Grande | 7545 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Plummer | Not The Phoenician nor Kierland |
| Grande Valley Ranch | 7183 | 72 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Forrest Richardson | Great Back 9 |
| Granite Falls North | 6720 | 72 | 115 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | (& Billy Caspar) Typical Sun City Course |
| Granite Falls South | 6939 | 72 | 112 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | http://www.grandinfo.com/spage.php?shw=100044&m=glf |
| Hillcrest | 7002 | 72 | 126 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | Subtle -- Worth more Study |
| Johnson Ranch | 7141 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Brian Whitcomb | Different 9s, Amazing views, "unfinished" |
| Ken McDonald | 6743 | 72 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Jack Snyder | Good Muni; Best Breakfast Sandwich |
| Kokopelli | 6716 | 72 | 135 | 3 | 3 | Bill Phillips | Nice course, good price, AGC |
| Las Colinas | 6655 | 71 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Mike Asmundson | green park style, duffer-friendly |
| Legend at Arrowhead | 6969 | 72 | 131 | 3 | 3 | Arnold Palmer | AGC run |
| Lone Tree | 7007 | 71 | 123 | 3 | 3 | Darryl Wilson | almost too nice -- over-engineered? |
| McCormick Ranch (Palms) | 7044 | 72 | 137 | 3 | 3 | Desmond Muirhead | A "subtle" Desmond Muirhead Design, perhaps? Best Full Breakfast! |
| McCormick Ranch (Pine) | 7187 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Desmond Muirhead | Harder than the Palms, but much the same |
| Mountain Brook | 6620 | 71 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Brian Whitcomb | http://www.mountainbrookgolf.com/golf/proto/mountainbrookgolf/index.htm |
| Oakwood Golf Club Palms / Sonoran | 6567 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 3 | Gary Panks | |
| Oasis Golf Resort | 7366 | 72 | 133 | 3 | 3 | 9Holes, Unexpectedly Interesting, Very Few Amenities | |
| Orange Tree | 6775 | 72 | 121 | 3 | 3 | Johnny Bulla | Resort, Flat, unimaginative, mostly wide-open, grainy greens |
| Palm Valley | 7015 | 72 | 133 | 3 | 3 | Arthur Hills | Subtle Challenges |
| Papago | 7333 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Bill Bell | 60s vintage park-style |
| Phoenician Desert / Canyon | 6068 | 70 | 131 | 3 | 3 | Ted Robinson | Best views in Phoenix; course has odd layout & landscaping; |
| Stone Creek | 6872 | 72 | 134 | 3 | 3 | Arthur Hills | Subtle, good condition, Surprising in places |
| Sun City Grand Cimmaron | 6809 | 72 | 123 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | wide open, with subtle difficulties |
| Sundance Golf Club | 6944 | 72 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | many interesting holes, house construction on all sides detracts |
| Superstition Springs Golf Club | 7005 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | AGC Course, en deshabille, interesting |
| TPC Champions | 7113 | 71 | 140 | 3 | 3 | Heckenkemper | Harder now, but not more interesting. |
| Trilogy at Power Ranch | 6740 | 71 | 128 | 3 | 3 | Dick Bailey | Very good back 9, scenic |
| Tuscany Falls | 6610 | 72 | 126 | 3 | 3 | Dick Bailey | more interesting than it looks, but not harder than it looks |
| Westbrook Village Vistas | 6432 | 72 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Ken Cavanaugh | Not comparable to Gold Canyon nor Vista Verde |
| Wigwam Blue | 6000 | 70 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Robert Trent Jones | Deceptively Difficult; short; penal; tiny greens hard to read |
| WigWam Red | 6852 | 72 | 126 | 3 | 3 | Red Lawrence | Old Phoenix Park Style |
| Wildfire Palmer Course | 7145 | 72 | 135 | 3 | 3 | Arnold Palmer | desert links, just lacks sump'n sump'n |
| Bear Creek | 6900 | 71 | 128 | 3 | 4 | Jack Nicklaus | Best Desert Links in the Valley, Very Inexpensive, Underfacilitated |
| Mission Royale | 6700 | 72 | 122 | 3 | 4 | Greg Nash | Like a Sun City course, only W-a-y back east in Chandler |
| Apache Creek | 6795 | 71 | 128 | 4 | 3 | Joe Alsip | Flat, but very interesting and bumpy greens |
| Arizona Biltmore Adobe | 6428 | 71 | 123 | 4 | 3 | Bill Bell | flat, rather uninteresting, good condition |
| Camelback Club Course | 7014 | 72 | 122 | 4 | 3 | Jack Snyder | Flat, Old Fashioned, non-desert course |
| Dobson Ranch | 6712 | 72 | 123 | 4 | 3 | Gary Panks | Lusher than Phoenix Munis, but not as interesting |
| Duke | 7011 | 72 | 120 | 4 | 3 | Dave Druzisky | Western theme fits Duke course |
| Links at Queen Creek | 6010 | 70 | 113 | 4 | 3 | Sam Wese | Short, unimaginative, unimposing |
| Villa de Paz | 6641 | 71 | 123 | 4 | 3 | Greg Nash | &Jeff Hardin -- Flat & Unmemorable |
| 500 Club | 6976 | 72 | 120 | 4 | 4 | Brian Whitcomb | Amazing back 9, noisy, tho' |
| Ahwatukee | 6713 | 72 | 120 | 4 | 4 | Gary Panks | Panks Worst Tendencies |
| Bougainvillea | 6817 | 72 | 118 | 4 | 4 | Dan Pohl | Too flat, too wide open; "Bogey-ville"; Pohl-cat |
| Great Eagle | 6646 | 72 | 124 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.greateaglegolfclub.com/ |
| Ironwood | 5286 | 67 | 99 | 4 | 4 | Keith Foster | Nice, but short, interesting greens |
| Painted Mountain | 6021 | 70 | 114 | 4 | 4 | Frank Boxberger | Mesa, short, OK |
| Pueblo at El Mirage | 6596 | 72 | 125 | 4 | 4 | Fuzzy Zoeller | Tornado Target |
| Scottsdale Country Club Starfire | 6093 | 68 | 123 | 4 | 4 | Arnold Palmer | Hawk & Squire #7s stand out |
| Silverado | 6313 | 70 | 116 | 4 | 4 | Ross Graves | & Jack Gilmore -- Interesting track, no range, no frills |
| Sun City Lakes West | 6251 | 72 | 119 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | short and wide, but not defenseless |
| Sun City North | 6410 | 72 | 117 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.sunaz.com/northgolfcourse.htm |
| Sun City Riverview | 6394 | 72 | 116 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.sunaz.com/riverviewgolfcourse.htm |
| Sun City South | 6774 | 72 | 115 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.sunaz.com/southgolfcourse.htm |
| Sun City Willow Creek | 6366 | 72 | 119 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.sunaz.com/willowcreekgolfcourse.htm |
| Western Skies | 6744 | 72 | 123 | 4 | 4 | Olenoski Design | We both birdied 8, a short par 4 |
| San Marcos | 6856 | 72 | 121 | 4 | Bill Robinson | http://www.sanmarcosresort.com/ | |
| Estrella Mountain Golf Course | 6866 | 71 | 118 | 4 | 5 | hidden values; 2nd best fried egg sandwich in PHX; raggedy | |
| Phantom Horse | 6336 | 71 | 125 | 4 | 5 | Forrest Richardson | poor shape, excellent vistas -- Best Breakfast Taco |
| Encanto | 6386 | 70 | 111 | 5 | 4 | Bill Bell | Just too short and uninspired; OK for a muni |
| Maryvale | 6646 | 72 | 119 | 5 | 4 | Bill Bell | 60s vintage park-style |
| Starfire King-Hawk | 6073 | 70 | 123 | 5 | 4 | Nice course, good price | |
| Toka Sticks | 6605 | 72 | 119 | 5 | 4 | Corps of Engineers | The GolfCourses.net |
| Pavilion Lakes | 6557 | 71 | 120 | 5 | 5 | flat , ugly, poor condition | |
| Viewpoint | 6324 | 71 | 116 | 5 | 5 | Easy, short, good for walking | |
| Apache Wells | 6038 | 71 | 114 | 5 | Flat, short, & ugly | ||
| Other Arizona Courses | |||||||
| Del Lago Tucson | 7206 | 72 | 142 | 2 | Vail, AZ (E of Tucson) very nice | ||
| Apache Gold | 7519 | 72 | 138 | 2 | Tom Doak | http://www.golfapache.com/ | |
| Lake Powell | 7030 | 72 | 154 | 2 | William Phillips | http://www.golflakepowell.com/ | |
| London Bridge East Course | 6140 | 71 | 124 | 3 | Lawrence Hughes | Ordinary Fun | |
| London Bridge West Course | 6613 | 71 | 122 | 3 | Lawrence Hughes | Longer Ordinary Fun | |
| Unreviewed/Unrated | |||||||
| Desert Springs | 7006 | 72 | 131 | Greg Nash | & Caspar -- | ||
| Gainey Ranch | http://www.gaineyranchcc.com/ | ||||||
| Executive Courses | |||||||
| 1st Tee South Mountain | 1800 | 54 | 1 | Tom Fazio | Excellent 1st Tee course | ||
| Augusta Ranch | 3799 | 61 | 88 | 1 | Well Done, Well Maintained | ||
| Mountain Shadows | 3081 | 56 | 96 | 1 | Jack Snyder | Awesome Excutive, Best In Class | |
| Continental | 2 | Driving range | |||||
| El Caro | 3357 | 60 | 80 | 2 | Bruce Devlin | ||
| Sunland Village | 3623 | 62 | 2 | Retirable | |||
| Ahwatukee Lakes Course | 4745 | 62 | 95 | 3 | Hale Irwin | ||
| 1st Tee Desert Mirage | 2095 | 31 | 3 | OK 1st Tee Course | |||
| Bear Creek Cub Course | 59 | 3 | Jack Nicklaus | ||||
| Rolling Hills | 3828 | 62 | 93 | 3 | Gary Panks | Good Par 3s, Good Views, Rubber mats on Practice Tee | |
| Shalimar | 2417 | 33 | 3 | only 9 holes, monotonous | |||
| Coronado | 1850 | 62 | 75 | 4 | Milt Coggins | "Worst & Most Beloved Golf Course in AZ"? | |
| Country Meadows | 4329 | 60 | 96 | 4 | 4 | Lush, but scruffy | |
| Cypress Golf Club | 4907 | 65 | 4 | ||||
| Desert Sands | 4029 | 65 | 58.9 | 4 | Odiferous & Flat | ||
| Palo Verde | 1820 | 30 | 78 | 4 | 9 hole version of Desert Sands, but not quite | ||
| Cactus Dave's Ratings | Mr. Science's Ratings | ||||||
| 1: The one and only best course in Phoenix | 1: Outstanding in every way. Pristine condition, fast and true greens, interesting and challenging design, courteous and attentive staff | ||||||
| 2: These could be # 1 . . . | 2: Excellent condition, well-run, nice course | ||||||
| 3: These are good, but could never be # 1 | 3: Very good course, playable, but lack something to be #2 | ||||||
| 4: Just not as good as a '3' | 4: OK, but not as good as a '3' | ||||||
| 5: Dog Tracks | 5: Too short, too easy, too flat, too slow, poorly maintained, or something else that makes it less enjoyable than it should be. Won't go back. | ||||||
| Unreviewed/Unrated | Unreviewed/Unrated |
