Monday, January 02, 2006
Encanto Golf Course
6386 yds, Par 70, Slope 111, by William P Bell / updated by Gary Panks . . .
Golfweb lists a few courses by Bill Bell . . .8^). . . most seem to be low-cost munis, but look at this, he did the Stanford University Golf Course, too:
http://www.golfweb.com/courseguide/ocdata?srchkey=advanced&couky=&pk=&hhk=NON&staky=&cntyky=&citky=&prox=&pdist=5&punit=mi&zipky=&ik=&phoky=&bk=any&lk=William+F.+Bell&gk=
This is what they say: http://phoenix.gov/SPORTS/encant18.html
Since
Corte Bella, also designed by Panks, is fresh on my mind, tho', I can't help but notice that like Corte Bella, "El Enchanto" has a certain mind-numbing similarity to all the holes that tends to lull the golfer, resulting in unnecessary strokes -- like driving on I10 towards El Paso for 5 or 6 hours can cause a driver to fall asleep and crash. I am a fan of the old "classic" courses by the "Old Masters" like Bredemus, McKinzie, Tillinghast, but I'm not sure this is a good example, even tho' there are no forced carries and no desert hazards around, betwixt, or between: the dormant bermuda is yellow all around, not just in the rough; the course is flat and the tees and greens are barely elevated; the greens are so slow and undulate so subtly that there is often much less break than it seems there ought to be; the traps were very shallow and filled with a coarse dirt rather than sand.
Being a muni, tho', they have been short of water, and Phoenix has been without rain for 75 days straight now -- maybe this is the fate of all Phoenix courses, in a couple of years. . . 8^0. . .
For the most part, the houses surrounding the course do not intrude, and the trees are set back so that they don't come into play except on very wayward shots. Like on #6, a par 4: my drive leaked right, windblown into the trees guarding the houses along the fairway, but I visualized a 7-wood hook around the trees and onto the green. What I got instead was a carom off a tree, then off a toolshed tin roof in someone's back yard, then back into the rough on the course.
I don't want to rag on Encanto any more, but if you were to objectively compare it to other Munis, in other cities, it really doesn't hold up very favorably:
Golfweb lists a few courses by Bill Bell . . .8^). . . most seem to be low-cost munis, but look at this, he did the Stanford University Golf Course, too:
http://www.golfweb.com/courseguide/ocdata?srchkey=advanced&couky=&pk=&hhk=NON&staky=&cntyky=&citky=&prox=&pdist=5&punit=mi&zipky=&ik=&phoky=&bk=any&lk=William+F.+Bell&gk=
This is what they say: http://phoenix.gov/SPORTS/encant18.html
"Completed in 1935, Encanto holds the distinction of being the tI had a 47-48=95, Mr. Science carded a 45-39=84. We were very pleased being able to walk, and for Mr. Science being able to use his hand-cart, but all-in-all, we had to grade it out at a 4, both of us: Just too flat & uninspired. . . It would be wrong to call the course "ugly" but some of the trees, the Russian Olives and the Salt Cedars, in particular ARE ugly. It just appears that Bell, and later, Panks, just didn't have enough to work with here for a first rate golf course.hird
oldest golf course in Arizona. Encanto is ideally suited for the average
golfer. Its level fairways are wide and it has a limited number of hazards. It
sports a relaxed atmosphere enhanced by the course's abundance of mature palm and salt cedar trees, plus some truly spectacular views of downtown Phoenix."
Since
Corte Bella, also designed by Panks, is fresh on my mind, tho', I can't help but notice that like Corte Bella, "El Enchanto" has a certain mind-numbing similarity to all the holes that tends to lull the golfer, resulting in unnecessary strokes -- like driving on I10 towards El Paso for 5 or 6 hours can cause a driver to fall asleep and crash. I am a fan of the old "classic" courses by the "Old Masters" like Bredemus, McKinzie, Tillinghast, but I'm not sure this is a good example, even tho' there are no forced carries and no desert hazards around, betwixt, or between: the dormant bermuda is yellow all around, not just in the rough; the course is flat and the tees and greens are barely elevated; the greens are so slow and undulate so subtly that there is often much less break than it seems there ought to be; the traps were very shallow and filled with a coarse dirt rather than sand.Being a muni, tho', they have been short of water, and Phoenix has been without rain for 75 days straight now -- maybe this is the fate of all Phoenix courses, in a couple of years. . . 8^0. . .
For the most part, the houses surrounding the course do not intrude, and the trees are set back so that they don't come into play except on very wayward shots. Like on #6, a par 4: my drive leaked right, windblown into the trees guarding the houses along the fairway, but I visualized a 7-wood hook around the trees and onto the green. What I got instead was a carom off a tree, then off a toolshed tin roof in someone's back yard, then back into the rough on the course.
-- Earlier in the round, the fellas we played with had asked us routine questions about where we lived and where we usually played. Mr Science uses that opening to expound on his vision, and of Our Quest: to play all the golf courses in the valley. People are always interested and sometimes envious. Of course we have to mention the blog, too, and how we are rating the courses we played, but how I don't have reviews of some good courses cuz nothing noteworthy happened --So our playing partners yelled at me "Put THAT in your blog!"
I don't want to rag on Encanto any more, but if you were to objectively compare it to other Munis, in other cities, it really doesn't hold up very favorably:
- Memorial Park Golf Course, Houston, by Bredemus
- Arroyo Del Oso, Albuquerque, by McKinzie (?)
- Grapevine Golf Course, Grapevine Tx, by Byron Nelson
I just feel that, if Phoenix has pretensions to being a golf mecca, much less a Major American City, it ought to take more pride in its Muni courses, and justify that pride with a little more cash.
That being said, the fine fellows we played with loved the course and had played it frequently, apparently from early childhood. On the 7th tee, too, there is a plaque placed in memory of some duffer with the inscription, "He Loved Encanto".
Dang good fried-egg-sandwich, too.
Thursday, June 09, 2011
DaBell, Burbank
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2011/06/burbank-debell-golf-course-library-cuts.html
The 18-hole "De Bell" course at the DeBell Golf Club facility in Burbank , California
http://www.worldgolf.com/golf-architects/william-f-bell.html
William F Bell also did in PHX:
Encanto Muni
Marwale ?
Papago Muni
Not to be confused with William P Bell, who did in PHX
Adobe at Arizona
Encanto, also
but, of course, there is a lot of overlap . . .
http://www.sandiego.gov/park-and-recreation/golf/torreypines/about/bells.shtml
Wednesday, May 10, 2017
$15M for parks went to golf courses in Phoenix -- will parks get repaid?
$15 Million
Dustin Gardiner , The Republic | azcentral.com Published 7:02 a.m. MT May 9, 2017
A group of Phoenix activists are pushing the city to come up with a plan to repay more than $15 million from a voter-approved tax that funds parks. Four years ago, the City Council borrowed to pay off debt from struggling municipal golf courses.
The residents accuse Phoenix of illegally misusing money from the voter-approved parks initiative. City officials say the transfer of funds was allowed.
While the debate has simmered for several years, it has received increased attention from city leaders lately as the Parks and Recreation Department, which manages city golf courses, works to develop a plan to return the money. The city doesn't have any money to repay it today.
But the parks department is considering selling some of its unneeded properties so it can start repaying the money in the near future.
This is what you need to know about the ongoing standoff between activists and City Hall over parks money:
How did it start?
Nearly a decade ago, the city asked voters to extend a special sales tax to fund parks and preserves.
Ballot language for the 2008 Phoenix Parks and Preserve Initiative, which extended the tax for 30 years, stated the money would pay to maintain, improve and expand green spaces and desert trails. It didn't say anything about golf courses or paying off city debt.
Voters overwhelmingly supported the initiative, with nearly 83 percent signing off at the ballot box. The tax amounts to one cent for every $10 purchase.
But Phoenix leaders soon found an unexpected use for the money: debt-ridden city golf courses.
In 2013, the City Council voted to borrow more than $15 million from parks initiative funds to pay off debt from its struggling golf courses. The city's golf courses had lost money for more than a decade as the popularity of the sport declined.
Golf courses were a city enterprise fund, meaning they were supposed to operate as a self-sustaining business separate from the rest of the city's general-fund budget.
Because the courses kept racking up debt — Phoenix loaned money to itself to keep the enterprise fund afloat — council members later decided to close the separate golf fund and made golf part of the city's operating budget.
But the city still needed to get rid of about $15 million in debt the golf fund owed to the city. That's when the council voted to take it from parks initiative funds.
Council members vowed to repay the money, though none has been repaid to date.
Activists are pushing city leaders to make good on their commitment. They contend Phoenix's use of parks funds to erase red ink from golf courses betrayed the will of the voters, and the group has considered filing a lawsuit to force the repayment.
Greta Rogers, a resident and part of the group challenging the city's decision, has publicly blasted the move at numerous council meetings.
"They committed fraud," Rogers told The Arizona Republic. "It should never have gone to pay debt. Period."
She said if the city had told voters that parks initiative money would be used to pay off debt from failing golf courses, the measure never would have passed.
"Voters aren’t going to pay for government to screw up," Rogers said.
The city's current plan to repay the money seems improbable: Profits from golf course operations are expected to eventually fund it. But that won't happen anytime soon because the city says its courses must first break even and pay for $8 million in needed improvements, such as irrigation systems.
Phoenix's golf courses haven't made a profit for about two decades, and Rogers predicts the money will never get repaid under the current plan.
If the money materializes, the city could potentially use it help pay things like more rangers to patrol city parks, new playground equipment and trail maintenance and upgrades.
What do city officials say?
Phoenix-owned golfcourses
Here's a breakdown of how each course fared during the last fiscal year:
Aguila (18 holes)
8440 S. 35th Ave.
Rounds played: 61,454
Loss: $38,415
Cave Creek (18 holes)
15202 N. 19th Ave.
Rounds played: 56,804
Loss: $39,151
Encanto (18 and 9 holes)
2775 N. 15th Ave.
Rounds played: 47,323; 28,727
Profit: $38,866
Palo Verde (9 holes)
6215 N. 15th Ave.
Rounds played: 28,998
Loss: $211,848
Note: Two of the city's six golf courses, Papago and GCU, are operated and managed by ASU and GCU, respectively. The city did not have round numbers or financial returns for the performance of those courses. The schools bear any losses with those courses.
Parks and Recreation Director Inger Erickson said the use of initiative money to pay off the city's golf debt was necessary because the city's Finance Department feared outstanding golf debt could hurt the city's bond rating.
Erickson said the city has worked hard to stem its losses with golf courses by cutting costs and signing agreements for Arizona State University and Grand Canyon University to operate two of the city's six courses, which the schools use for their golf teams and various events.
ASU operates the Papago course in east Phoenix. GCU operates the former Maryvale course, now known as GCU Golf Course, and the university built a new clubhouse.
Erickson said the city still intends to repay parks initiative money it borrowed, but there is no timeline for when that could happen. Her department is working on a plan to possibly sell unneeded parks properties to come up with the money.
“I think everybody’s intention is to pay it back," she said. "How you get there is the question. I can’t create money. I can’t cut other programs to get to that."
The department is working to sell two properties right now: a vacant lot adjacent to the Rose Mofford Sports Complex near the Metrocenter Mall; and a vacant lot next to Kuban Park. Erickson said she will likely recommend the council use proceeds from the sale of those properties to begin repaying the debt.
It was unclear how soon the properties could be sold. Erickson said the city intends to sell them through a public-bid process.
Residents pushing the city to repay parks money say they welcome the proposal and hope the city will approve a specific plan outlining which unneeded parks properties will be sold.
How are city courses performing?
Erickson said the department plans for its golf courses to break even this year after many years in the red. In the last fiscal year, which ended June 30, 2016, the courses lost about $133,000.
Those losses were covered with money from the city's general fund. Erickson said the city has not budgeted any money to cover losses with the golf courses this year because it plans to break even.
But the popularity and fiscal performance of the city's courses varies. Just one golf course operated by the city, Encanto, made a profit last year.
Monday, October 08, 2007
Sun City South
6774 yds, Par 72, Slope 115, by Greg Nash, I reckon.They Say: "South Golf Course is located south of Grand Avenue. This is a beautiful 18 hole facility known for its flatness and length, with plush greens throughout the course. There is a full service Grill and Deli on site that serves breakfast, lunch and an assortment of beverages. The Pro Shop has a wide variety of clothing and accessories that are available for purchase. Tee times can be reserved up to five days in advance to make your scheduling easier."
Opened in 1962, so, um, it's Old Phoenix, in a grassy, california way rather than Modern Arizona Xeriscape . . . Played with Mrs Cactus and Mr Science. We all walked . . . it was very pleasurable, temperature wise, even at mid-morning . . . I had mixed expectations: hadn't played since we played in a Friday Afternoon Tournament out at Kokopelli, so I expected to be rusty, but then, I knew this course would be wide open, flat, available, if you know what I mean, despite the subtleties Nash has learned to introduce into his designs, after so many! This being one of the early ones, would lack some of those, be more, um, muni-like, if you see what I mean.
I mean, I think we both would say it was better than Maryvale, or Encanto, but it still cannot be a 3, not really.
I think the greens most put off Mr Science; I guffawed with dis-belief when he told me how many putts he'd had -- he keeps those stats, you know -- seeks to "improve" himself with them, you know.
I paraphrase the great Dublin club-pro, Oscar Wilde, when he said, "Anyone who knows their game must have a very limited game, inDEED!" . . . 8^D . . .
I suppose I could count my putts up afterward, in my head, replaying my round, which is what I do instead of counting sheep, but not on that course . . . all the holes look like all the other holes, and all the other holes look like all the other holes in all the courses in Sun City, Sun City Grande, and Sun City West -- so I lose count. There's not enough difference to hang my memory on.
I liked the par 4 #12 the best, it had the most unique appearance: the landing area was squeezed by trees on the left, and a large mounded bunker on the right. It might be the only hole on the course where one has to be careful, but one does have to be careful there.
So, altho' the greens put Mr Science off, I feel so disoriented, already, with my putting-in-new-glasses now, that I felt relatively comfortable, if you see how I mean, and, so, mysteriously confident, I proceeded to shoot lights out on the front 9: even par 36 with 2 birdies. I can't remember a thing about them. Then I "blew up" to a 42 on the back . . . even an hour after we finished, when we three were sitting in Flo's on Thompson Peak, eating our $5 Saturday Specials, I still kept pounding the table, going, "A Crappy 78! That Crappy 42! @#%@#%@#$@#%!!!!!"
At one point Mr Science said to me, "Boy, you are striping your drives today!" and I was, and putting well, and hitting some irons well, too . . . almost like you dream of that your whole game will come together at the same time, if you know what I mean?
So Mr Science "ballooned" himself to an 81 . . . he blamed his putting, but I think it might have been his distance control -- normally one of his strong suits, doncha know.
So all d
ay at work today, I was looking to tell someone about my 36 on the front9. The Defenestrator wasn't in the office; Clinton the Ace's office was dark all day, too; The Z-Dog wasn't to be found, I started telling some of the women around me and their eyes just rolled up into their heads -- they don't play golf.
ay at work today, I was looking to tell someone about my 36 on the front9. The Defenestrator wasn't in the office; Clinton the Ace's office was dark all day, too; The Z-Dog wasn't to be found, I started telling some of the women around me and their eyes just rolled up into their heads -- they don't play golf.So I had to go over to Mr Science and tell him, but he holds his hand up like a traffic cop, and says, "Forget it! I was there, man. I was there."
"But," I say, "It's for the blog."
He dropped his head sideways into his palm with an elbow planted on the desk. He gave me the "c'mon, c'mon" with his stop-sign hand, like a fellow working a double-shift at the complaint window at Walmart.
But there isn't any story there -- just what I told you here -- and my soliloquy trailed off into stammers and mumbles, so I just shrugged and went back to my own cube.
Wednesday, March 01, 2017
phoenix leaders weighing future city golf courses
phoenix leaders weighing future city golf courses
Nearly four years after approving a $17 million plan to keep city-owned golf courses open, Phoenix leaders could once again debate whether to stay in the golf business. The Parks and Recreation Department says more rounds are being played, but program remains in the red.
papago
cave creek
aguila
maryvale now called Grand Canyon University Course
encanto
Nearly four years after approving a $17 million plan to keep city-owned golf courses open, Phoenix leaders could once again debate whether to stay in the golf business. The Parks and Recreation Department says more rounds are being played, but program remains in the red.
papago
cave creek
aguila
maryvale now called Grand Canyon University Course
encanto
Monday, February 20, 2006
Papago
7068 yds, Par 72, Slope 128, by William Bell, Re-fit by Jack Snyder.
Golfweb
"Papghetto" the same way as Encanto is "Enchanto". But we felt that the course was in very playable shape. Definitely, a solid "3". Sure it could have been in better shape and it seems kind of long-in-the-tooth, but the layout is very fine; the scenery, beautiful, even if not breath-taking; and the golf itself is very challenging. This is definitely the most difficult of the Phoenix Munis, although I can easily believe that Cave Creek is the most popular.
I shot a 46-43=89; Mr. Science a 43-42=85. If I could putt, I would've shot low-80s . . . part of that was the fair-&-challenging greens, but most of it is I have just lost my touch (or my concentration (or my courage)) on short ones for par. I made some heroic lag putts that left me with tap-ins, but my short game and putting otherwise is killing me. The course is long-and-tough, but also sort-of wide open, so that there is usually a chance for a recovery shot, long as you don't mind clanging your club off a rock or two.
The way the holes look from the tee is really beautiful: narrow fairways with wide shouldered, close-cut dormant bermuda rough, surrounded by red-rock hills and old, old trees that seem to come into play, often. Hardly a flat-lie to be found, either.
Note that the first two holes are on the AZCentral Best 18 holes in Phoenix
I'd have to play it again to get a sense of the course, I mean, the strategy of
the course . . . the only thing that comes to mind now is how hard the last 3 holes were, the #2, #8, & #4 handicap holes, 443 par 4, 227 par 3, & 443 par 4. I was striking the ball fairly well, and playing smart, but just not able to get it in the hole . . . by the time we finished of course, it was a 5 hour round, and my attention span tends to wander after that long, especially walking.
The only bloggable thing that happened out of the ordinary was on #9, a par 5 with water running down most of the right side. Our playing companion, Rasputin, the mad duffer, for whom golf seems to aggravate his ADHD, had kind of a difficult shot out of the trees from behind the water, and when he hit is ball, the ball DID go 
over the water into the next copse, but his 7 iron snapped off at the kick point and the club head went into the water hazard, well out of reach. "These are Ping Eye 2 clubs!" he wailed, "a pro told me they were worth $3000! What should I do? Should I go in there after it?" And so on, for the next 9 holes, "What do you think I should do? Give me your advice! Can I tip the greenskeeper? Will they let me dive for it?"
"Hey man!" I finally said, "Just look on EBAY for a new 7 iron . . . "
Wednesday, January 18, 2006
Maryvale Golf Course
William F. Bell, creator of San Diego's fabled Torrey Pines, was the architect for Maryvale. A championship-length course, it is suitable for all skill levels. Maryvale has become well known for its excellent practice facilities and its popular junior golf school, which instructed many of Arizona's golf professionals.
6646 Yds, Par 72, Slope 119
Golfweb Entry
A little bit more interesting, a little more challenging than En Canto, which Bill Bell also designed. Same sort of Park-Style ambience with old growth trees and wall-to-wall grassing. Maybe a little better shape, a little better watered, the fairways were green -- not to say lush -- and surrounded by the dormant yellow bermuda rough. It seemed to me that the tees & greens were microscopically more elevated than En Canto.
I had a pathetic 45-52= 97; Mr. Science, 41-41=82. The course ought to be too easy for me to shoot a 96, but my short game was sinfully bad: duffed sand shots, bladed pitches, offline chipping, and my putting -- that I like to say covers up the sins of my other clubs -- hasn't come back around since I got stung on my left thumb by a scorpion: I'm putting off-line everytime and my speed is heinously in error. Mr. Science OTOH said, "I'm in Golf Hell".
Mr. Science's definition of Golf Heaven & Golf Hell:
- In Golf Heaven, the Golf is exactly like it is here, and you play exactly like you do now, always seeming to improve, and you get to play every day.
- In Golf Hell, every drive is down-the-middle, every approach is in the middle of the green, and every green is a 2-putt par.
I felt like I was in my own golf hell, too. I had 3 pars, 3 bogeys, and 3 doublebogeys on the front 9 for a 45, because of my short game, so I resolved to grind out at least a 44 and break 90, but I double bogeyed the Par 5s #10 & # 12, both with 4 putts, due to the shocking difference in the slope of the greens from the rest of the course. On the other holes, the roll won't break as much as it looks like, and so, lulled to sleep, my first putts just raced away downhill unexpectedly (and I'm not putting that well lately anyway).
So I arrived at the 16th tee needing 3 pars to get my 45, but what I got instead was double, triple, double bogeys. Those last 3 holes are 438, 206, & 410 yds . . . I think I got greenside in regulation, but floundered from there on in. The 4 long par 4s, #s 3, 4, 16, & 18 are tough. Combined with the 2 Par 5s with the steep greens, a very interesting back 9.
The weather was nice, the course was very playable; it was a very nice walk in the park, but it still ranks as a 4 by each of us . . . Even without the scenic advantage of Encanto that has views of Downtown Phoenix, this is a better course than that, in that the layout is slightly more interesting and challenging. We felt in danger the whole day tho', for several times, a stray shot bounced thru our 4some and there always seemed to be extra balls in the fairway.
If only, the fairway edges were mowed in a more amoebic pattern, instead of as straig
ht as cornrows, the visual appeal of the course, especially with the Phoenix-trademark contrast of dormant rough and green fairway, would very much enhanced. This is the common fault of 2nd tier munis, tho', one of those critical differences between really attractive and, uh, not-quite-so-attractive courses. Maryvale is a 60s vintage course, showing its age, but not a bad way to spend a day, at all.
The coffee shop ambience is a little lacking and my egg sandwich, tho' tasty, was probably greasy -- it gave me heartburn.
Wednesday, June 28, 2017
Phoenix Golf Courses Reviewed & Rated by Cactus Dave & Mr Science
| Name | Yards | Par | Slope | Cactus Dave Rating | Mr. Science Rating | Architect | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Rancho Manana | 6016 | 70 | 128 | 1 | 2 | Bill Johnston | Very scenic, interesting, mountainous, harder than it looks on paper |
| Boulders South Course | 6726 | 71 | 139 | 2 | 1 | Jay Morrish | |
| Estrella Mountain Ranch | 7139 | 72 | 135 | 2 | 1 | Jack Nicklaus II | Top Shelf |
| Gold Canyon Dinosaur Mountain | 6653 | 70 | 143 | 2 | 1 | Nash & Cavanaugh | challenging |
| Grayhawk Raptor Course | 7135 | 72 | 143 | 2 | 1 | Tom Fazio | dreamy, hilariously difficult |
| Las Sendas | 6874 | 71 | 145 | 2 | 1 | Robert Trent Jones | Hardest public course in Phoenix |
| Quintero | 7208 | 72 | 147 | 2 | 1 | Rees Jones | Private; ludicrously difficult, gorgeous, manicured |
| Raven at Verrado | 7258 | 72 | 132 | 2 | 1 | John Fought | great shape, interesting holes, nice clubhouse,very friendly staff |
| SunRidge Canyon | 6766 | 72 | 152 | 2 | 1 | Keith Foster | Hard, Scenic, Well maintained, Friendly Staff |
| Troon North Tournament | 7025 | 72 | 147 | 2 | 1 | Weiskopf & Morrish | Tough Course, Great Golf, Fabulous Facility, Gracious Staff, but . . . |
| We-Ko-Pa Cholla | 7225 | 72 | 136 | 2 | 1 | Scott Miller | Very scenic, desert, challenging |
| We-Ko-Pa Saguaro | 6912 | 71 | 138 | 2 | 1 | Crenshaw & Coore | http://www.wekopa.com/layout9.asp?id=236&page=25959 |
| Ancala Country Club | 7000 | 72 | 138 | 2 | 2 | Pete Dye | private; say no more. |
| Boulders North Course | 6811 | 72 | 137 | 2 | 2 | Jay Morrish | |
| Eagle Mountain | 6802 | 71 | 139 | 2 | 2 | Scott Miller | Beautiful course, beautiful views |
| Gold Canyon Sidewinder | 6509 | 71 | 130 | 2 | 2 | Nash & Cavanaugh | Scenic, challenging design |
| Grayhawk Talon Course | 7000 | 72 | 140 | 2 | 2 | Graham & Panks | |
| Legacy | 6816 | 71 | 128 | 2 | 2 | Gary Panks | nice timeshare resort, classy |
| Legend Trail | 6815 | 72 | 135 | 2 | 2 | Rees Jones | Elegant, Sophisticated, Challenging |
| Longbow | 7003 | 71 | 125 | 2 | 2 | Ken Cavanaugh | Interesting, beautiful, challenging, & enjoyable |
| Los Caballeros Wickenburg | 7014 | 72 | 135 | 2 | 2 | Greg Nash | & Jeff Hardin |
| Ocotillo | 6804 | 71 | 130 | 2 | 2 | Ted Robinson | Lush, Challenging, water, water, everywhere |
| Pointe at Lookout Mtn. | 6535 | 71 | 135 | 2 | 2 | Bill Johnston | Fabulous views, Marble Rest Rooms! |
| Raven at South Mountain | 7078 | 72 | 130 | 2 | 2 | Graham & Panks | |
| Sanctuary | 6624 | 71 | 139 | 2 | 2 | Heckenkemper | Narrow fairways, penal rough. Back 9 may be best 9 in the valley. |
| Sedona Golf Resort | 6646 | 71 | 128 | 2 | 2 | Gary Panks | Very scenic, mountainous |
| Southern Dunes | 7494 | 72 | 137 | 2 | 2 | Schmidt / Curley | Tough Desert Links, Troon Managed, much better than Copper Canyon+A1 |
| Stone Ridge | 7052 | 72 | 132 | 2 | 2 | Heckenkemper | Spacious compared to Sanctuary; seems harder than 132 slope |
| Talking Stick North Course | 7133 | 70 | 125 | 2 | 2 | Crenshaw & Coore | |
| Talking Stick South Course | 6833 | 71 | 125 | 2 | 2 | Crenshaw & Coore | |
| Tonto Verde Peaks Course | 6737 | 72 | 132 | 2 | 2 | Graham & Panks | Fabulous Views, Great Condition, Interesting Course |
| TPC of Scottsdale Stadium Course | 7216 | 71 | 138 | 2 | 2 | Weiskopf & Morrish | PGA Tour venue, pricey, difficult; |
| Trilogy at Vistancia | 7269 | 72 | 134 | 2 | 2 | Gary Panks | Unique uncut native grass rough, tough holes |
| Troon North Pinnacle | 7044 | 72 | 147 | 2 | 2 | Tom Weiskopf | Lopsided design, but Awesome |
| Vista Verde | 7219 | 72 | 144 | 2 | 2 | Ken Cavanaugh | Awesome, Underutilized Course |
| Vistal | 7013 | 71 | 129 | 2 | 2 | Lehman,Twitty,Mayfair | Worth multiple visits |
| Whirlwind Cattail Course | 7218 | 72 | 132 | 2 | 2 | Gary Panks | tough, scenic, lush, Best Solo Panks? |
| Wigwam Gold Course | 7430 | 72 | 135 | 2 | 2 | Robert Trent Jones | Unrelenting, Implacable, Merciless |
| Wildfire Faldo Course | 6846 | 71 | 127 | 2 | 3 | Nick Faldo | somewhat linksy, good |
| Corte Bella | 7011 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 2 | Gary Panks | Interesting(Difficult) Greens, Plush, manicured, Troon-managed |
| Dove Valley Ranch | 7011 | 72 | 131 | 3 | 2 | Robert Trent Jones, Jr | Awesome, interesting course, might be underrated |
| Kierland Resort Golf Course | 6913 | 72 | 131 | 3 | 2 | Scott Miller | Awesome Resort, Beautiful, Wide-open course |
| Poston Butte | 7282 | 72 | 127 | 3 | 2 | Gary Panks | Well deserved Reputation, very panksian, walkable |
| Tatum Ranch | 6856 | 72 | 127 | 3 | 2 | Robert Cupp | Private; Beautiful views, conditions, wide greenbelts, devlish greens |
| Tonto Verde Ranch Course | 6988 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 2 | Gary Panks | lush, scenic, Panksian Greens |
| Whirlwind Devils Claw | 7029 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 2 | Gary Panks | lush, scenic, Panksian Greens |
| Aguila | 6962 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 3 | Gary Panks | Good Muni, needs TLC, still playable |
| Antelope Hills North | 6844 | 71 | 131 | 3 | 3 | Lawrence Hughes | Old-school park design, hilly, tough rough, lots of trees |
| Antelope Hills South | 7014 | 72 | 124 | 3 | 3 | Gary Panks | Typical Panks atypically hilly, sorta linksy |
| Arizona Biltmore Links | 6300 | 71 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Bill Johnston | fantastic back9, quirky 3s |
| Arizona Golf Resort | 6574 | 71 | 121 | 3 | 3 | Jack Snyder | |
| Arizona Traditions | 6073 | 70 | 115 | 3 | 3 | Dick Bailey | |
| Arrowhead CC | 7001 | 72 | 124 | 3 | 3 | Arnold Palmer | Not as dynamic as Arrowhead Legend, but better condition |
| ASU Karsten | 7057 | 72 | 132 | 3 | 3 | Pete Dye | Railroad ties. Rubber Mats. No Pull Carts. Cramped layout. |
| Camelback Resort Course | 6903 | 72 | 132 | 3 | 3 | Arthur Hills | Interesting & Challenging |
| Cave Creek | 6732 | 72 | 119 | 3 | 3 | Jack Snyder | The Favorite Muni, Desert Links, TOUGH Greens |
| Club West Golf Course | 7149 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 3 | Brian Whitcomb | Friendly staff, Spectacular South Mountain views |
| Coldwater | 6758 | 72 | 121 | 3 | 3 | Forrest Richardson | "best course to play on a budget"; Railroad Tie Bunker |
| Copper Canyon | 6845 | 72 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Schmidt / Curley | Neighborhood Construction, way out west, Troon managed |
| Coyote Lakes | 6213 | 71 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Jack Snyder | Short but entertaining |
| Desert Canyon | 6415 | 71 | 123 | 3 | 3 | John Allen | Every Visit improves our opinion . . . |
| Eagles Nest | 6790 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Keith Foster | Good Layout over very ordinary ground |
| Falcon Golf Course | 6673 | 71 | 128 | 3 | 3 | Brian Curley | Abandoned Air Force base? Great Par 3s. Good Condition? |
| Foothills | 6968 | 72 | 132 | 3 | 3 | Brian Whitcomb | Lopsided design, best Breakfast Burrito in the Valley |
| Franscisco Grande | 7545 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Plummer | Not The Phoenician nor Kierland |
| Grande Valley Ranch | 7183 | 72 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Forrest Richardson | Great Back 9 |
| Granite Falls North | 6720 | 72 | 115 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | (& Billy Caspar) Typical Sun City Course |
| Granite Falls South | 6939 | 72 | 112 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | http://www.grandinfo.com/spage.php?shw=100044&m=glf |
| Hillcrest | 7002 | 72 | 126 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | Subtle -- Worth more Study |
| Johnson Ranch | 7141 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Brian Whitcomb | Different 9s, Amazing views, "unfinished" |
| Ken McDonald | 6743 | 72 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Jack Snyder | Good Muni; Best Breakfast Sandwich |
| Kokopelli | 6716 | 72 | 135 | 3 | 3 | Bill Phillips | Nice course, good price, AGC |
| Las Colinas | 6655 | 71 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Mike Asmundson | green park style, duffer-friendly |
| Legend at Arrowhead | 6969 | 72 | 131 | 3 | 3 | Arnold Palmer | AGC run |
| Lone Tree | 7007 | 71 | 123 | 3 | 3 | Darryl Wilson | almost too nice -- over-engineered? |
| McCormick Ranch (Palms) | 7044 | 72 | 137 | 3 | 3 | Desmond Muirhead | A "subtle" Desmond Muirhead Design, perhaps? Best Full Breakfast! |
| McCormick Ranch (Pine) | 7187 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Desmond Muirhead | Harder than the Palms, but much the same |
| Mountain Brook | 6620 | 71 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Brian Whitcomb | http://www.mountainbrookgolf.com/golf/proto/mountainbrookgolf/index.htm |
| Oakwood Golf Club Palms / Sonoran | 6567 | 72 | 129 | 3 | 3 | Gary Panks | |
| Oasis Golf Resort | 7366 | 72 | 133 | 3 | 3 | 9Holes, Unexpectedly Interesting, Very Few Amenities | |
| Orange Tree | 6775 | 72 | 121 | 3 | 3 | Johnny Bulla | Resort, Flat, unimaginative, mostly wide-open, grainy greens |
| Palm Valley | 7015 | 72 | 133 | 3 | 3 | Arthur Hills | Subtle Challenges |
| Papago | 7333 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Bill Bell | 60s vintage park-style |
| Phoenician Desert / Canyon | 6068 | 70 | 131 | 3 | 3 | Ted Robinson | Best views in Phoenix; course has odd layout & landscaping; |
| Stone Creek | 6872 | 72 | 134 | 3 | 3 | Arthur Hills | Subtle, good condition, Surprising in places |
| Sun City Grand Cimmaron | 6809 | 72 | 123 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | wide open, with subtle difficulties |
| Sundance Golf Club | 6944 | 72 | 125 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | many interesting holes, house construction on all sides detracts |
| Superstition Springs Golf Club | 7005 | 72 | 130 | 3 | 3 | Greg Nash | AGC Course, en deshabille, interesting |
| TPC Champions | 7113 | 71 | 140 | 3 | 3 | Heckenkemper | Harder now, but not more interesting. |
| Trilogy at Power Ranch | 6740 | 71 | 128 | 3 | 3 | Dick Bailey | Very good back 9, scenic |
| Tuscany Falls | 6610 | 72 | 126 | 3 | 3 | Dick Bailey | more interesting than it looks, but not harder than it looks |
| Westbrook Village Vistas | 6432 | 72 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Ken Cavanaugh | Not comparable to Gold Canyon nor Vista Verde |
| Wigwam Blue | 6000 | 70 | 120 | 3 | 3 | Robert Trent Jones | Deceptively Difficult; short; penal; tiny greens hard to read |
| WigWam Red | 6852 | 72 | 126 | 3 | 3 | Red Lawrence | Old Phoenix Park Style |
| Wildfire Palmer Course | 7145 | 72 | 135 | 3 | 3 | Arnold Palmer | desert links, just lacks sump'n sump'n |
| Bear Creek | 6900 | 71 | 128 | 3 | 4 | Jack Nicklaus | Best Desert Links in the Valley, Very Inexpensive, Underfacilitated |
| Mission Royale | 6700 | 72 | 122 | 3 | 4 | Greg Nash | Like a Sun City course, only W-a-y back east in Chandler |
| Apache Creek | 6795 | 71 | 128 | 4 | 3 | Joe Alsip | Flat, but very interesting and bumpy greens |
| Arizona Biltmore Adobe | 6428 | 71 | 123 | 4 | 3 | Bill Bell | flat, rather uninteresting, good condition |
| Camelback Club Course | 7014 | 72 | 122 | 4 | 3 | Jack Snyder | Flat, Old Fashioned, non-desert course |
| Dobson Ranch | 6712 | 72 | 123 | 4 | 3 | Gary Panks | Lusher than Phoenix Munis, but not as interesting |
| Duke | 7011 | 72 | 120 | 4 | 3 | Dave Druzisky | Western theme fits Duke course |
| Links at Queen Creek | 6010 | 70 | 113 | 4 | 3 | Sam Wese | Short, unimaginative, unimposing |
| Villa de Paz | 6641 | 71 | 123 | 4 | 3 | Greg Nash | &Jeff Hardin -- Flat & Unmemorable |
| 500 Club | 6976 | 72 | 120 | 4 | 4 | Brian Whitcomb | Amazing back 9, noisy, tho' |
| Ahwatukee | 6713 | 72 | 120 | 4 | 4 | Gary Panks | Panks Worst Tendencies |
| Bougainvillea | 6817 | 72 | 118 | 4 | 4 | Dan Pohl | Too flat, too wide open; "Bogey-ville"; Pohl-cat |
| Great Eagle | 6646 | 72 | 124 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.greateaglegolfclub.com/ |
| Ironwood | 5286 | 67 | 99 | 4 | 4 | Keith Foster | Nice, but short, interesting greens |
| Painted Mountain | 6021 | 70 | 114 | 4 | 4 | Frank Boxberger | Mesa, short, OK |
| Pueblo at El Mirage | 6596 | 72 | 125 | 4 | 4 | Fuzzy Zoeller | Tornado Target |
| Scottsdale Country Club Starfire | 6093 | 68 | 123 | 4 | 4 | Arnold Palmer | Hawk & Squire #7s stand out |
| Silverado | 6313 | 70 | 116 | 4 | 4 | Ross Graves | & Jack Gilmore -- Interesting track, no range, no frills |
| Sun City Lakes West | 6251 | 72 | 119 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | short and wide, but not defenseless |
| Sun City North | 6410 | 72 | 117 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.sunaz.com/northgolfcourse.htm |
| Sun City Riverview | 6394 | 72 | 116 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.sunaz.com/riverviewgolfcourse.htm |
| Sun City South | 6774 | 72 | 115 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.sunaz.com/southgolfcourse.htm |
| Sun City Willow Creek | 6366 | 72 | 119 | 4 | 4 | Greg Nash | http://www.sunaz.com/willowcreekgolfcourse.htm |
| Western Skies | 6744 | 72 | 123 | 4 | 4 | Olenoski Design | We both birdied 8, a short par 4 |
| San Marcos | 6856 | 72 | 121 | 4 | Bill Robinson | http://www.sanmarcosresort.com/ | |
| Estrella Mountain Golf Course | 6866 | 71 | 118 | 4 | 5 | hidden values; 2nd best fried egg sandwich in PHX; raggedy | |
| Phantom Horse | 6336 | 71 | 125 | 4 | 5 | Forrest Richardson | poor shape, excellent vistas -- Best Breakfast Taco |
| Encanto | 6386 | 70 | 111 | 5 | 4 | Bill Bell | Just too short and uninspired; OK for a muni |
| Maryvale | 6646 | 72 | 119 | 5 | 4 | Bill Bell | 60s vintage park-style |
| Starfire King-Hawk | 6073 | 70 | 123 | 5 | 4 | Nice course, good price | |
| Toka Sticks | 6605 | 72 | 119 | 5 | 4 | Corps of Engineers | The GolfCourses.net |
| Pavilion Lakes | 6557 | 71 | 120 | 5 | 5 | flat , ugly, poor condition | |
| Viewpoint | 6324 | 71 | 116 | 5 | 5 | Easy, short, good for walking | |
| Apache Wells | 6038 | 71 | 114 | 5 | Flat, short, & ugly | ||
| Other Arizona Courses | |||||||
| Del Lago Tucson | 7206 | 72 | 142 | 2 | Vail, AZ (E of Tucson) very nice | ||
| Apache Gold | 7519 | 72 | 138 | 2 | Tom Doak | http://www.golfapache.com/ | |
| Lake Powell | 7030 | 72 | 154 | 2 | William Phillips | http://www.golflakepowell.com/ | |
| London Bridge East Course | 6140 | 71 | 124 | 3 | Lawrence Hughes | Ordinary Fun | |
| London Bridge West Course | 6613 | 71 | 122 | 3 | Lawrence Hughes | Longer Ordinary Fun | |
| Unreviewed/Unrated | |||||||
| Desert Springs | 7006 | 72 | 131 | Greg Nash | & Caspar -- | ||
| Gainey Ranch | http://www.gaineyranchcc.com/ | ||||||
| Executive Courses | |||||||
| 1st Tee South Mountain | 1800 | 54 | 1 | Tom Fazio | Excellent 1st Tee course | ||
| Augusta Ranch | 3799 | 61 | 88 | 1 | Well Done, Well Maintained | ||
| Mountain Shadows | 3081 | 56 | 96 | 1 | Jack Snyder | Awesome Excutive, Best In Class | |
| Continental | 2 | Driving range | |||||
| El Caro | 3357 | 60 | 80 | 2 | Bruce Devlin | ||
| Sunland Village | 3623 | 62 | 2 | Retirable | |||
| Ahwatukee Lakes Course | 4745 | 62 | 95 | 3 | Hale Irwin | ||
| 1st Tee Desert Mirage | 2095 | 31 | 3 | OK 1st Tee Course | |||
| Bear Creek Cub Course | 59 | 3 | Jack Nicklaus | ||||
| Rolling Hills | 3828 | 62 | 93 | 3 | Gary Panks | Good Par 3s, Good Views, Rubber mats on Practice Tee | |
| Shalimar | 2417 | 33 | 3 | only 9 holes, monotonous | |||
| Coronado | 1850 | 62 | 75 | 4 | Milt Coggins | "Worst & Most Beloved Golf Course in AZ"? | |
| Country Meadows | 4329 | 60 | 96 | 4 | 4 | Lush, but scruffy | |
| Cypress Golf Club | 4907 | 65 | 4 | ||||
| Desert Sands | 4029 | 65 | 58.9 | 4 | Odiferous & Flat | ||
| Palo Verde | 1820 | 30 | 78 | 4 | 9 hole version of Desert Sands, but not quite | ||
| Cactus Dave's Ratings | Mr. Science's Ratings | ||||||
| 1: The one and only best course in Phoenix | 1: Outstanding in every way. Pristine condition, fast and true greens, interesting and challenging design, courteous and attentive staff | ||||||
| 2: These could be # 1 . . . | 2: Excellent condition, well-run, nice course | ||||||
| 3: These are good, but could never be # 1 | 3: Very good course, playable, but lack something to be #2 | ||||||
| 4: Just not as good as a '3' | 4: OK, but not as good as a '3' | ||||||
| 5: Dog Tracks | 5: Too short, too easy, too flat, too slow, poorly maintained, or something else that makes it less enjoyable than it should be. Won't go back. | ||||||
| Unreviewed/Unrated | Unreviewed/Unrated |
